OpenAI's Very Bad Week, Microsoft's Huge AI Event & Scarlett Johansson is Not Happy

Audio EP 59
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[00:00:00] 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And Sam Altman are in big trouble.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: They have not one, not two, but three controversies, and we're gonna explain how the sky has fallen?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Plus the California Senate is actually one step closer to shutting down the entire AI industry, but no one seems to notice because, Scarlett Johansson is like really upset, 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And in good news, anthropic might've just found out how AI actually works. Did you know that nobody, really knew how it works? 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Is that weird? Should we have been concerned that we didn't know? 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: We'll get into everything. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: This is AI for Humans.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to AI for Humans. This is your weekly guide to the wild and wonderful world of generative AI. And again, we have had a week. What a week. There are so many big stories to get into. Controversies. , illuminations. , some interesting stuff that we found and got to play with.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Illuminatis. There's probably a lot of illuminati stuff

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: QX file sting? We say it every week. It's not clickbait. [00:01:00] This was actually, like, a massive, massive week in AI, yet again. But, something we also say, Gavin?

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We love you when you love us. So please like, and subscribe. If you're watching this on YouTube, leave us a comment, subscribe to the channel. If you are listening on podcasts, us a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify podcasts. We will read our five star Apple podcast reviews at the end of the show.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We have a couple today, which is very exciting. So thank you very much. But Kevin, shall we do it? Shall we do it?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes, let's do the news!

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So the big story this week is actually three stories in one. And this is that Sam Altman has had a no good, very bad week. So there's three separate things we want to dive into here.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And we'll just quickly highlight what they are at the top. And then we'll get into each one specifically. First of all, his super alignment team left. And that caused a big kerfuffle. Second of all, there was a [00:02:00] lot of problems with how people have been treated after they left OpenAI. And And third, Scarlett Johansson, which all three we will get to.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So give us a second. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I didn't have Scarlett Johansson on my AI bingo card for this year, but maybe I should have.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: you definitely should have, because we all knew that sky sounded like Scarlett a while back, but anyway, let's, let's step into these one by one.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: missed it over the weekend, Jan likey. One of the head of super alignment from open a I threw a giant Twitter thread out about why he left open a I and Kevin.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: This was kind of mind blowing to read because you don't often see people who leave companies kind of scorched earth style on their way out the door. And again for those listeners who may not know super alignment or alignment in a I.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's trying to make sure that the AI doesn't behave in a way that we don't want and eventually kill us. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I also want to clarify because I did get someone who emailed me saying, what's the difference between alignment and super alignment? And the difference is probably like 25, 000 to 30, 000 a year. This is just, 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: it's a

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: marketing job. It's a marketing job.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So the biggest thing that [00:03:00] yawn said was that open AI was not giving them enough compute to do the work they needed to do, which clearly there's an important work to be done there to make sure that the bottles that they are releasing are not going to be dangerous or used by malicious actors.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: This

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, but, Gavin, if you want to win the race, you can't be worried about whether or not your laces are tied properly.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: is that where you're at with this?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: to the future of trillions of dollars. So hey, nerds with your safety scissors, eh, go play in the corner with your rounded edges. We're sprinting with the big dogs.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Bark, bark, baby! That's me and Sammy Altman, \ they made a very public announcement, OpenAI did, months ago, , saying they were gonna dedicate 20%, , a sizable chunk, of all of their compute, all of their processing power, which Companies are scrambling for.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: We talk about it all the time on this podcast, literally Mark Zuckerberg out there flexing about how many processors he's got in his back pocket. Because the engineers need those processors to make these big foundational [00:04:00] models and try to accelerate the future of AI.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: So to say we're going to devote 20 percent of all of our capacity to making sure that we're safe. What a brilliant vision! Except, they never did.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yeah, they never

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: At all.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: which is a real bummer. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I don't want to kind of , overstate exactly what this was because it could also just be some fallout of Ilya leaving, fallout from November when Sam was almost ousted by the board. But clearly they have an issue here in terms of, let's say management. Sam is somebody who famously like is a big entrepreneur ran Y Combinator before.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: In fact, I saw a tweet that focused on Paul Graham, who was a guy that founded Y Combinator. And in case you're not familiar, Y Combinator is a very famous startup incubator in Silicon Valley that Sam , started in, was one of the first classes of, and then ended up running. Paul Graham had a thing that basically said that, , naughtiness is a good quality of startup founders.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And that's he used Sam as an example in that from his work [00:05:00] at looped, not to say that like he was doing anything illegal, but that you would kind of do whatever you need to kind of go. And this is all the move fast and break things kind of world of Silicon Valley.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And they've said about him in the past, , nothing will get in his way. He is a Silicon Valley Kool Aid man. He will burst through whatever wall. Oh, yeah.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm a large language model.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Exactly. Even if those cinder blocks land on all of humanity. Oh, well, he's making it through the wall. And I appreciate and respect that you caveat this, Gavin, with this could be recoil from the fallout with Ilya.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yeah. But in his own tweets, Jan says, Over the past few months, my team has been sailing against the wind. Sometimes we were struggling for compute and it was getting harder and harder to get this crucial research done. The next post on X says, Building smarter than human machines is an inherently dangerous endeavor.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Open AI is shouldering an enormous responsibility on behalf of all of humanity. Now, someone whose job it is to super [00:06:00] align these machines Needs to feel that way about their task, right? That needs to be important. It also helps justify everything that they're doing. But if you feel that way and you feel your team is not getting the resources it needs, and your name is on that team, it's your job to make this stuff safe.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes, you should leave. So jan certainly spoke up and apparently OpenAI has a bit of a history of legally muzzling employees when they're on the way out.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: This is controversy number two that happened this week. After the super alignment kerfuffle went down, there was a story that came out from Vox that talked about the fact that OpenAI has had a policy of removing equity from employees who kind of stand out. After the fact. Now, there's been a long history in Silicon Valley of like signing NDAs conceivably when you leave a company that you can't say something disparaging about this, but this was something that was a big deal and got kind of looped into this whole conversation around when Yon and Ilya left.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Sam specifically responded to this with a [00:07:00] tweet that said, and this is just to put in time scope of this week. This was pre Scarlett post. Yon. So we're in this world of pre Scarlett post.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yon. Uh, he said in regards to recent stuff about how open AI handles equity. We have never clawed back. Anyone's vested equity normally do that. If people do not sign a separation agreement and don't agree to a non disparagement agreement, at the end he says, , the team is already in the process of fixing the standard exit paperwork over the last month. If any former employee who signed one of these old agreements is worried about it, they can contact me and we'll fix that too. Very sorry about this. So Sam's apologizing in this.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Clearly, maybe this is a thing, Kevin, again, where, like, hand in the cookie jar, kind of, after the fact, but, again, I wanted to give Sam the benefit of the doubt, because Visionary tech people , are moving our culture forward in some ways. And some people would a hundred percent disagree with that.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: But like, in order to move technology forward, there are things that these guys are doing that are impressive and interesting and cool on the other side. You start to look at a pattern of behaviors. [00:08:00] Right. And it does start to kind of lean into like, okay, one thing we saw with Yon, clearly that maybe you could blow that off.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: This is then number two. And then, number three is the bomb that dropped this week. And I think people weren't expecting this to be a bomb. And I bet opening, I was not expecting this to be a bomb, but it really blew up in a big way.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: ScarJoGate was a tiny little blip on the radar, and then, , we scrambled all jets because all hell broke loose. So there's a lot to discuss here, so let's catch everyone up.

Mhm.

gavin_1_05-21-2024_113418: a blog post, kind of out of the blue, that I wasn't expecting to read. The title of the blog post was, How the voices for chat GPT were chosen. They talk about the fact that a voice launched on chat GPT's app in September of 2023. They talk about the five voices and I thought, Oh, maybe this is because they released GPT 4.

gavin_1_05-21-2024_113418: 0 last week and their new voice situation looks really big and [00:09:00] interesting. really cool. And then you kind of scroll down this blog post and you see a specific line that I want to call out that's going to jump us into this conversation. We believe AI voices should not deliberately mimic a celebrity's distinctive voice.

gavin_1_05-21-2024_113418: Skye's voice is not an imitation of Scarlett Johansson, but belongs to a different professional actress using her own speaking natural voice. So Kevin, they Yeah, so 

kevin---_1_05-21-2024_113418: stop saying it, internet. Exactly, exactly. You need to stop saying it. Just stop it right now. 

Speaker 4: Just to catch you up really quickly, the GPT 4. 0 voice kind of became an internet phenomenon.

Speaker 4: Even Scarlett Johansson's husband, Colin Jost, made a joke about it this weekend on SNL. 

Speaker 6: Chat, GPT has released a new voice assistant feature inspired by Scarlett Johansson's AI character in Her, which I've never bothered to watch because without that body, what's the point of listening? 

Speaker 4: So, clearly, Kevin, this is in 

Speaker 7: the zeitgeist right now.

Speaker 7: The voices have been out since 2023 and people did [00:10:00] Accused Skye, the Scarlett Johansson sounding voice, of sounding like the AI assistant from her even back in 2023. But I think the unlock of the performative qualities of the voice that we heard last week, Gavin, where it sort of giggles and twirls, it's non existent.

Speaker 7: Digital bangs or that you are the announcement, 

Speaker 8: Ooh, me , the announcement is about me. 

Speaker 7: That was the thing that made people perk up and say, wait a minute. Yeah. This is starting to have a personality. And that personality me feels like it might be copy and pasted. Yeah, exactly. and also Sam Altman, the head honcho at OpenAI didn't really do himself any favors when he just tweeted the word.

Speaker 7: Now, granted, that could be because of the performative conversational qualities that they were demoing in the new GPT 4 0 model. But most people are saying it's because it sounded like Scarlett Johansson. 

Speaker 4: And I think this is something that's not new, but you know, performance does lean into, you make an association with things, right?

Speaker 4: And we're also going to [00:11:00] talk about the fact that her may not be the thing we absolutely want our AI to be associated with. It's pretty obvious to me that OpenAI was at least winking about this the whole time. That tweet would be a real giant flag and saying like, look at us, look at us. It's kind of like when you're guilty, you do the things that make you seem the most guilty.

Speaker 4: Here's what blows my 

Speaker 7: mind, Gavin. Okay, we get our press team together. We have a late night huddle over some chai lattes and we say, hey, you know what? Let's do a lengthy blog post explaining that we, we did a traditional casting session with over 400 voice actors who submitted and we whittled them down to a very small list.

Speaker 7: We flew the voice actors out to San Francisco and did recordings with them. We're paying them, Gavin, above industry rates. These are all the things they go through in their blog posts to distance themselves from, we just copied and pasted Scarlett Johansson. It's not Scar Jo, it's another actress. But we're gonna go ahead and disable access to the voice anyways.

Speaker 7: That's the big thing. [00:12:00] Gavin, if the neighbors are pointing through the front window and screaming, Kevin, you have to stop making sweet, passionate love to that anime body pillow. And my response, Gavin, is I am not doing anything unsavory with that body pillow. That body pillow is just ergonomic because I sleep on my back.

Speaker 7: But you know what? I'm going to take it. I'm going to burn it. I'm going to put the ashes in a glass case. Yeah, I'm going to throw it in the dumpster and I'm going to lock that dumpster just to prove to you that I'm not doing anything unsavory with that sweet, sweet anime body pillow. 

Speaker 4: Yes, that so I saw a couple things are happening here.

Speaker 4: So just to be clear, what Kevin was saying is they have now removed the sky voice from the chat GPT apps. You can no longer use this. The voice is still 

Speaker 7: there and selectable as of this recording, Gavin. You can select it, but it gives you a different voice, different voice, chat 

Speaker 4: with it, different voice. So you're not getting the same voice.

Speaker 4: And I also want to point out that Scarlett Johansson has a really big killer legal team. If you remember back in, I guess it was 2020 probably during the pandemic, she fought [00:13:00] Disney and won for payments out of Black Widow once it was not in theater. So like, she's not someone that's going to screw around.

Speaker 4: Now are there possibilities that the director might have given the voice actress the idea of like, please sound more like Scarlett Johansson or they can ask somebody that sounds like Scarlett Johansson? So Kev, whAt I want to do is play a little clip from her and then I want to play a little clip from one Of the videos from last week. Let's play the clip from her first. 

Speaker 9: Oh, yeah I think I was just saving those cuz I thought maybe I wrote something funny in some of them 

Speaker 8: Yeah, there are some funny ones I'd say there are about 86 that we should save.

Speaker 8: We can delete the rest. 

Speaker 4: So that was Scarlett Johansson from her Let's Take a Listen to one of the videos that OpenAI released last week. Well, in a few minutes I'm going to be interviewing at OpenAI. Have you heard of them? 

Speaker 8: Open AI sounds vaguely familiar. Getting, of course, that's incredible. Rocky, what kind of interview?

Speaker 8: Okay. That's pretty close. I don't know, 

Speaker 4: [00:14:00] man. It's pretty close. I don't know. That, 

Speaker 7: that sounds very close to me. 

Mhm.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So, right after that, Scarlett Johansson's people dropped a response to all of this stuff. And at first, Kevin, when this came out, I wasn't sure if it was real, and then it started to leak out more and more that this was real.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Can we go through a little bit of what she said in her statement?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Of course we can go through it, Gavin. I've memorized the whole thing. Let me just go back into my mind palace.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Turn left at the Red Bull Tower, right at the Gaudi Chandelier. Yeah, ScarJo statement, which We did wonder if was real or not because the initial reporting of it came from Bobby Allen, who is a tech correspondent for NPR. And it was just like a screen capture of 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: was super weird way to tweet something that that's that that incriminatory like incriminatory in some ways He needed to say something like exclusive I've got the the Scarlett Johansson's publicist because all of us weren't sure if it was real or

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Correct. Last September, this is according to ScarJo's, , letter or her people's [00:15:00] letter, , that Bobby posted. Last September, I received an offer from Sam Altman who wanted to hire me to voice the current chat GPT 4. 0 system. she goes on to explain what their discussion was back and forth.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: After much consideration and for personal reasons, seems a little loaded, I declined the offer. Nine months later, my friends, family, and the general public all noted how much the newest system named sky sounded like me. She then goes on two days before the chat GPT 4. 0 demo was released. Mr.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Altman contacted my agent asking me to reconsider before we could connect. The system was out there.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Okay, so here we go. Obviously, this has been discussed on the internet ad nauseum at this point, more than the internet, like this has gone and this has gone fully mainstream. Kevin, I want to talk about what these three, like scandals, essentially, they I wouldn't say maybe scandals is too strong word, but three controversies due to the reputation of what open AI is doing in this space, [00:16:00] especially coming off of companies like Google and Microsoft, which are both doing very big things on their own.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And you've got Apple waiting in the wings, which supposedly is partnering with open AI. Do you think this is going to ultimately be damaging to the company? Do you feel like, obviously there's a lot of anti AI ers out there who want it to

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, yeah. But I mean, even people that are in the pocket of big AI like you and I are. Paid

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: exactly. We're paid shills. Yes.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: where the money's coming from. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Rain in from rain in from the sky. Mr. AI bring on some more fun

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Ow! Those are cinder blocks! Oh, no, Sam! Stop bursting through walls! It's not cool. Proponents of artificial intelligence have to take a step back.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: You and I have to take a step back and go, man, could you please not do the reckless thing? This is the meme where the person riding the bike takes a stick. And puts it into their own tire and then gets mad when they're on the ground , and writhing in pain. And even though like after reviewing the play, I think the Sky voice is slightly [00:17:00] different than Scarlett Johansson's. It's the voice itself feels different. The performance might be a little cliche pick me, but it's really hard.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: To I guess 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Are you backing off now? Are you backing off of your original thought? Now you're saying, oh, it's different. You and I both thought it sounded very similar. Let's be clear.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: yes. Well, it sounded similar for sure I've gone back though, and I've listened to them back to back a bunch and again I think the performance is similar But that performance is something that you get on like tik tok fit Fluencers that are teaching you how to make cottage cheese bread.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's not like

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I don't know,

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: different. I

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I disagree. I disagree. I think that it's pretty obviously influenced by Scarlett Johansson. Like my, my theory on this more than anything else is that They got somebody in a, in a VO booth. I don't think they stole , or modeled her voice with actual recordings of her.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I think that is obvious. I think that would be legal nightmare and I think they're not dumb enough to do that. I think they got somebody in a VO booth and said, here's Scarlett [00:18:00] Johansson from her. It's this performance. Can you model your performance after that? So it's

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: you think they specifically said that? Do you think there, there's an email somewhere? They're like, Hey, this is the target we want to hit because the negotiations with team Scarjo fell through.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I didn't think this necessarily before hearing the Scarlett Johansson letter, but I think very much so now. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's going to be settled one way or the other. Right? This is where Tim Cook swoops in and just backs the Apple money truck up. And actually, ScarJo's personal issues were that she was holding out for a Siri deal, which would be a lot better and everybody will be happy and OpenAI and Apple can be together and we can all have ScarJo as our assistant, which I would not mind

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: No, that'd be cool. But Kevin, we are lucky enough to have a celebrity who's come on here to talk about this exact issue.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: In fact, This is kind of a big booking for us, Kevin. I I'm really amazed at this

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: is until it isn't.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm pretty amazed. This person came on the show. I don't want to say who it is [00:19:00] until we have them introduced themselves. I'd like to have them introduce themselves first and then we'll get into who this is because honestly, you're going to be shocked.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I love that we have a new thing where it's kind of like the deal or no deal banker. Our guests are always silhouette up

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes, 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I can see a big, a very bulky Robloxian figure has stumbled up to the glass. I can't wait. If you could say hello, please, please, please introduce yourself.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Ah, hello Kevin and Gavin. And hello to the AI4Humans audience. This is Arnold Schwarzenegger, the real deal. You might know me from, uh, my legendary movies like, uh, Terminator and Total Recall. Yeah, that's right, it's me. I'm here to pop Wait, we got the real? 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's the

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: real Arnold Schwarzenegger,

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: and he, he stumbles on remembering what his most iconic franchise is of all time.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Okay, I'm sorry. Please real Arnold, continue. Your brains with some serious AI knowledge. [00:20:00] You see, AI is the future and I'm leading the charge. With this technology, we can turn anyone into a superstar. Imagine an army of Arnold clones all ready to dominate Hollywood. But don't forget this, Kevin. I'm It is so that of them what for them while dwell Of a tax item to a tell a dam o wind 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Wait, wait, wait! Stop, Arnold! Stop!

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I would to rend be a low 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: What happened to Arnold there? What happened?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: can see the teleprompter, and that is not what Arnold was supposed to do at the end there.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: No, in fact, this is a dumb thing. We want to do something quickly with this. I actually recorded a very, very bad Arnold Schwarzenegger impression myself. Three, three samples of it. Kevin then pitch shifted the voice down slightly and we are using that as our AI co host today.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We wanted to show like, it is, this is like the dumbest thing ever, but like it's possible to do this yourself in a really bad way. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: When you [00:21:00] clone a voice, if you're doing it like on 11 labs and there's plenty of other software out there that'll let you do it, there are variables like stability or exaggeration. And if you tweak those levers, you can get really performative, not quite.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Scarlett Johansson cease and desist level performance, but you can get some performative stuff out of it. Sometimes though your AI goes rogue and starts speaking in tongues. And that's what we got right there. So let's ask, , AI Arnold.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: A. I. Arnold? Gavin 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: ask him what happened there at the end with the, uh, the speaking in tongues. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, Kevin, Gavin, let me tell you, sometimes even a legend like Arnold Schwarzenegger gets a little too excited. You see, uh, when I talk about AI and all the amazing things it can do, I get so pumped up it's like I'm lifting weights. a thousand pound doom bell with my words, but don't worry, I'm back on track now.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: You see, AI is the future, and I'm here to make sure everyone knows it. With this technology, we can create legends just like me, A. I. Ronald Schwarmanader. [00:22:00] Imagine a world where everyone can be a superstar, where your wildest dreams Come true with a click of a button. Remember Gavin, I'm always watching, stay in line or I'll be back.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Now let's get this podcast pumping. You know what, what a showman. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We are going to drive and keep going forward on this podcast. But if you want to play around with something like that, it actually 11 labs is very easy. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I gotta ask him if he thinks Sam Altman ripped off Scarlett

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Johansson. We

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: fine, fine. All right. Fine.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, Kevin, Gavin, let me tell you something. If Sam Altman really ripped off Scarlett Johansson's voice, that's like stealing the protein powder right out of my shaker. It's a big no no, and you know A. I. Ronald Schwarzenegger does not tolerate such things. The punishment should be was something fitting for you for a blockbuster movie, [00:23:00] like, uh, putting Sam through the ultimate AI training montage.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Maybe he has to lift the weight of ethical responsibility or run a marathon of legal consequences. Remember, we need to respect the talents and voices of others. AI should enhance, not exploit. So Sam, listen to me now and believe me later.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Get permission or AI Reynold Schwarzenegger will be watching you. Hasta la bye bye, baby.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: That was one of our better A. I. co

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm sweating. I'm sweating. Oh, oh, oh God. Astala, bye bye, baby.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: la bye bye, baby. Thank you so much, uh, AI Arnold for coming on the show. Uh, sometimes they work out better than others, Kevin. Sometimes they really, really do have

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, if you want to play with AI, you can, , take five whole minutes and make a dumb thing like that.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: [00:24:00] Honestly, that is one of the things to be aware of. Like, it's not like we spend hours on these things in any sort of way. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: It was way better than the stuff that you and I actually spend

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes, that's absolutely, that's the hard point.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Pure irony of it. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So our AI co host had some words for Sam Altman, but Sam wasn't out of the public eye this week.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: That's just to be clear. He actually showed up at the Microsoft build conference to give some attention to the 10 billion investors that have put money into open AI and Satya Nadella, Microsoft's head, showed up and showed off a ton of really cool things.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: In addition to that, 

Mhm.

Speaker 10: All right, Gavin Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft did the Microsoft Build Conference 2024. He had a lot to say about AI and CoPilot specifically. He talked about their AI stack. 

Speaker 11: We've built really three platforms. The first is Microsoft CoPilot, which is your everyday companion. And we built the CoPilot stack so that you can build your AI applications and solutions and experiences.

Speaker 11: And just yesterday, we introduced a new category. [00:25:00] Of co pilot plus PCs, the fastest AI first PCs ever built. 

Speaker 12: Yeah. He got into talking a lot of very technical details. And I know we, the word infrastructure is not something you expect to hear on an entertaining podcast about AI, but just to very quickly and very briefly kind of explain what that was that they talked about.

Speaker 12: So 

Speaker 10: Satya was out there talking about the farm to table approach that is their AI co pilot stack. 

Speaker 12: I want to know which farm this is and who's farming for this kind of stuff because every word that came out of his mouth was like gibberish to me in some form or another but It does get us to a place, the table that we're going to eat 

Speaker 13: at.

Speaker 13: Azure farms, a global connection. We work with Cloodle. We work with Zingo. We work with Blazow. 

Speaker 12: It could have easily been a bit about like how crazy these tech names are. But anyway, sorry. Yes. Farm to table essentially means that they want to be. The whole pathway through the AI journey from the beginning, [00:26:00] which is the raw material that will allow you the processors, the chips, the RAM, the 

Speaker 10: everything in a server farm, a very real, uh, digital farm, if you will, global locations, you know, AI has to make its way from happening in that cloud all the way to you asking Minecraft, how do I build a sword?

Speaker 10: Which is something we're going to get to. So that's what they talked about. And look, this was for the developers, as we said at the very top. So it was a lot of like API SDK tech developer word spaghetti. We're not going to touch on that necessarily, because I think the most impactful stuff for you and I Gavin, and for everybody watching this are the things that we're going to get our hands on that are going to enhance.

Speaker 10: Our productivity or our ability to entertain ourselves. And Microsoft did showcase a handful of those things. 

Speaker 12: I do want to very quickly call at the very end of this presentation, they brought out Sam Altman and we were thinking, Oh, is Sam going to demo GPT five or something exciting like that? And no, he mostly just did what [00:27:00] you said and talked about how important it is for developers and kind of repeated some of the same.

Speaker 12: Talking points that we had heard before, including did not mention Scarlett Johansson, which you assumed he was not going to, but there was a pretty interesting demo that they showed right before Sam came out, where they had a Microsoft developer show her phone at code that she was writing in the time, and she got advice from this GPT 4.

Speaker 12: 0 voice client, right? So Kevin Scott then said it's something that they made last night. And 

Speaker 10: also the AI voice, clearly not ScarJo, seemed like a model that hasn't been as thoroughly baked because I was like, yeah, it could 

Speaker 13: help you with your code. Uh, have you thought about adding an array to the end of it?

Speaker 13: That sounds good. 

Speaker 12: Uh, okay. Let's jump into CoPilot. And I think there's a lot of CoPilot stuff to talk about here. One of the big things that they just announced was CoPilot plus PC. So what this means is that Microsoft is working with a bunch of hardware manufacturers including its own surface computers [00:28:00] to bake AI into the computer itself.

Speaker 12: And Kevin, I want you to explain to me what an NPU is. Do you know what an 

Speaker 10: NPU is? It is a Neural Processing Unit. It is a special chip that's designed to deal with the complex mathematics that are involved. Looking up these vector database tables, it's a chip. Designed specifically for enhancing AI calculations and workflow.

Speaker 10: And the co pilot plus PC line has a special NPU built in, which means when we talk about these features and we talk about the future of compute, whenever it's a co pilot plus PC, what that means is the laptop that you're probably watching this on right now, because they won't be available until June 18th at the earliest, it can't run these things.

Speaker 10: You need that dedicated chip You know what? I should take a step back. It might be able to run some of these things, but your battery would die just by thinking about running it and everything would overheat and steam would shoot out of your computer. So you have to have a [00:29:00] co pilot plus PC for these things, but they took direct shots at Apple Gavin by saying.

Speaker 10: These new PCs are faster than Apple Silicon, faster than the M3s. The battery life is gonna last forever on these things, and again, that custom NPU, that Neural Processing Unit, is going to enable some features that you can't get And those same features are very controversial. Some people are getting very bent out of shape, including Elon Musk.

Speaker 10: So let's talk about the first one, Gavin. Let's talk about Microsoft's recall. 

Speaker 12: I think this is great. Now there are a bunch of like possible safety concerns and a bunch of possible privacy concerns. But the basic idea here is that there's going to be an AI onboard your computer that is going to literally see and watch everything you do on your computer.

Speaker 12: Now, There's probably people out there who have been using private browsers for some specific things for a while And those people may or may not want to be using these type of PCs But the promise of this is that you can just ask your little AI [00:30:00] assistant. Hey, what was that thing? I I texted my wife about yesterday and because it saw all this stuff You don't have to scroll all the way back through your text to find it We've talked about the Star Trek computer on this show quite a bit You That feels like another piece of the Star Trek computer, right?

Speaker 12: These large language models are amazing, and they have this kind of generalized knowledge, but what they don't have is knowledge of me. They don't have my stuff, and this feels like a relatively safe way to do this. But Elon, Elon first tweeted, this is a Black Mirror episode, definitely, uh, turning this feature off.

Speaker 12: Which, you know, fair 

Speaker 10: enough. Which you can, by the way. You have full control over this feature. Now I, listen, I, I value my privacy, believe it or not. I think most people do to some extent, but this is a feature where you're going to have to weigh the pros and the cons of giving your operating system, giving Microsoft the ability to crawl everything you see, say, or do on a machine.

Speaker 10: But you can. Limit the access by application. If you don't want your incognito sessions logged, let's [00:31:00] say, or your discord DMS, you can also shut the feature off completely. A friend of ours, Joanna Stern, had a great Wall Street Journal piece on this, and she searches for like a brown leather bag. And it goes through all of these images that it had grabbed of various websites where there was a photo of a brown leather bag.

Speaker 10: Now nowhere on the site did it say that. The AI just knew, oh. This is a brown leather bag. So the satchel detection of this new recall feature is off the charts. 

Speaker 12: Kevin, who knew that license plates and satchels were the future of AI. I never would have expected it, but after Google's event this weekend, last week, and this week, I'm now convinced what it's about is figuring out how, where did I find my keys?

Speaker 12: That's what they have to figure out. How does an AI find my keys? That was in the project Astra demo. That was in the 

Speaker 10: Google glasses demo. Where are my keys? Basically, any question that gets asked in an old 90s infomercial that's still in, like, black and white at the top, where's, where did the soda? Uh, where are my keys?

Speaker 12: How can I, 

Speaker 10: I've fallen down, how do I find my life alert button? Elon [00:32:00] concerned folks in our timelines rightfully concerned. Satya Nadella was specifically asked about this by Joanna Stern, and his response was, is that it's happening at the edge, which for all of you means, Is that like a, is that like a 

Speaker 12: 90s bar 

Speaker 10: where I go and like, Hang out with my skater friends.

Speaker 10: It's an old rock radio station from the East Bay. You're listening to the edge. No, what it means is that it, because of that NPU that we talked about, all of that processing is happening on your device. At least that's the promise that they're making is that all of those screenshots that this AI is taking and then crawling to figure out what you're looking at and what is being said, potentially what you're saying or what's being listened to as well.

Speaker 10: So all of that is happening on your device. It's not being sent up to the mothership. That's at least the promise. We will see what happens when this is all delivered, but there is a case to be made that you can have an amazing piece of technology like this and still maintain privacy and security.

Speaker 12: That's right. So I want to talk about what some of the things that it [00:33:00] promises also with this co pilot assistant when this is another version of all the assistance we've seen. They did show a really cool demo of it being interactive with a Minecraft demo. Hey, Co Pilot. How's it going? 

Speaker 14: Hey, it looks like you're about to dive into some Minecraft.

Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to make a sword. 

Speaker 14: To craft a sword, you'll need some materials. Can you open your inventory? Just press E on your keyboard. You've got some sticks. Perfect for the storage handle. 

Speaker 12: As somebody who's played games my whole life and somebody who is in the middle of playing Baldur's Gate three, finally in act three, everybody.

Speaker 12: I finally made it in. I'm about 70 hours in, um, who is consistently looking up, how do I solve this damn puzzle or how do I figure out where the hell I'm supposed to step on these stupid little squares that are numbers that don't look like numbers and they don't go in order, That's for you, Larry in studios.

Speaker 12: I hate the vault puzzle and I just solved it myself. The interesting thing about this demo was watching basically in real time, having somebody partner with you as you walk through what was going on in a game. I know online, there've been a [00:34:00] couple of people that have kind of like said this might've been semi faked, but it does seem like this is a usable use case of a real time assistant.

Speaker 12: I listened to Sam on the Logan Bartlett podcast, which I recommend everybody. We'll put a link in the show notes of this, but one of the things Sam said in that interview was You will have your GPT 4 O assistant, in this case co pilot assistant, kind of on while you're working so that you can talk to it and ask it questions while you're doing something else.

Speaker 12: It could just be a persistent thing in your life, and that's actually an interesting thing to think about. 

Speaker 10: The always on nature of these assistants is going to absolutely happen, because it will seem frustrating or annoying when you have to summon one. Yes. And you have to wait for it to wake up and come alive, and then it doesn't actually know what you were just looking at or doing, so you have to provide it context.

Speaker 10: That will seem very archaic very soon, which is astonishing how quickly we're moving in that direction. Um, With the Minecraft demo, specifically Gavin, where they're playing Minecraft and they're saying, Hey, I want to make a sword. And the person that's driving the demo is saying my kid [00:35:00] plays this game, but I don't know what to do.

Speaker 10: I am not at all surprised that the AI can do that, right? Especially when it's a Microsoft owned property and they can feed all the data into their GPT 4. 0 model. The game changing moment is the fact that it is so deeply intertwined with that operating system so that it's there. Always watching, always listening in real time.

Speaker 10: It's all built in whether using that recall or you're using co pilot to help navigate you through a gaming experience or software design or taking notes on a meeting. Super, super interesting, and I would have never thought, Gavin, that I'd be excited for MS Paint again. 

Speaker 12: So what they showed off with MS Paint was essentially live co creation, right?

Speaker 12: It allows you to 

Speaker 10: draw basic shapes and things into MS Paint, give it a prompt, and it uses AI to enhance your drawings. And this has folks excited again, like it'll be fun to create with paint. A weird sentence to be saying in 2024. I guess. I 

Speaker 12: guess. What we always talk about is like, you see the research paper, like the [00:36:00] research paper comes out and then to product pipeline feels like it keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Speaker 12: Like the things that used to take maybe years to come to mainstream products now feel like they're coming in. Six months, three months, maybe even a month, depending on what it is. Kevin Scott really spoke to this idea of be prepared for how fast this is going to move. 

Speaker 15: We are riding like a fundamental wave in, um, in the development of this AI platform.

Speaker 15: Where if you just sort of look at compute over time, like how much, uh, GPU cycles or accelerator cycles that we're using to train the very biggest models in the world since about 2012, uh, like that rate of increasing compute when applied to training has been increasing exponentially and we are nowhere near the point of diminishing marginal returns on how powerful we can make AI models as we increase the scale of compute.

Speaker 12: He doesn't see any slowdown of the scaling laws that are happening with [00:37:00] AI. And just for all of our audience out there who may not be that familiar, scaling laws of AI mean that basically there's a theory that the larger and larger these models get, the better and better they get. And a lot of people who are kind of like pushing back on AI or kind of believe that we're going into an AI winter, which is something that people do say a lot, They're like, no, it's not going to scale anymore.

Speaker 12: We're kind of reached the peak. Kevin, the, this guy who is the CTO of one of the largest corporations in the entire world says, no, he says he believes it will scale significantly. I think that's an important message to take away. 

Speaker 10: Sam Altman has been screaming from the mountaintops the exact same message from OpenAI.

Speaker 10: Expect the capabilities to be unlocked. Expect the intelligence to keep going up. And some will say, well, of course he has to say that. He's trying to raise a trillion dollars. Or multiple trillions of dollars to build everything. And Microsoft's the purpose of 

Speaker 12: this. He's gotta hire five more giant stars to take the place of Scarlett Johansson.

Speaker 12: No, first Dwayne The Rock Johnson, we gotta bring him in. You mean five more 

Speaker 10: all star lawyers to just settle the [00:38:00] cases after they copy and paste all these personalities? Oh, that 

Speaker 12: reminds me, I saw the craziest conspiracy theory by the way today. Which was somebody, I'll find out what this tweet is and I'll put it in the show.

Speaker 12: Somebody said, maybe Sam Altman purposely didn't tell Scarlett Johansson knowing that this would become a lawsuit because he wants AI to be regulated and to shut out the open source smaller models. He's playing 4D chess, man. That's 5D chess, 

Speaker 10: baby. They also showed off a couple other little NPU powered experiences, Gavin, like a live translation demo.

Speaker 10: So, you could be watching. Uh, a cooking demo in a foreign language. And in real time, it will translate that into your native language. They also showed off live descriptions. So you could be watching a piece of media and having a narrator sort of tell you what's on the screen, uh, amazing advances in accessibility, which are always great to see this technology unlock 

Speaker 12: very quickly.

Speaker 12: One of the things they did is they brought out the head of Khan Academy and Khan Academy, if you're not familiar, has been this really interesting company that for a nonprofit that for. I [00:39:00] think 10 to 15 years has been trying to start education online, provides free education. You take classes, a bunch of different things.

Speaker 12: They're going to integrate a thing called Con Amigo, which is basically go, they're going to make it free for everybody. And essentially this is co pilot for teachers. And that feels like it could be transformative. One thing I constantly think about this, Kevin. is the hallucination problem. And I do think we should dive into this deeper in a future episode where we talk very specifically about how close AIs aren't solving that.

Speaker 12: Will they solve it? I think they probably will. But this promise of AI versus the hallucination thing is something that I think is going to continue to come back until it's solved. Let's talk about the teachers who lie, Gavin. Why don't we digress for a second? Let's talk about Mrs. Johnson in fourth grade.

Speaker 12: She lied to my parents about this and that and I couldn't do anything else. Just kidding. I don't have a Mrs. Johnson. I didn't stay back in fourth grade. In fact, I almost skipped kindergarten, everybody. That's how smart I was. So 

Speaker 10: smart. So smart then and still smart now, some would [00:40:00] say.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Okay, we're gonna move fast through some other big stories this week. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Gavin, I have to now talk about politics. The thing that nobody wants to hear, especially in the wake of Scarlett Johansson's feelings being hurt, but 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: senator Scott Weiner posted on X, quote, The Senate passed our AI safety and innovation bill, SB 1047. And according to Mr. Weiner, It promotes innovation and ensures developers of the largest, most powerful AI models keep safety in mind.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Why the internet isn't freaking out about this a lot more, Gavin? I mean, I get it. It's politics.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's also California only, right? Like it's it's not national. So this is California only

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: that's correct. But, you know, when the EU passes privacy legislation, it has ripples and effects for the entire industry, right? And California does not want the brain drain that will come from this sort of legislation and some are saying that that open AI wants this this is regulatory capture because [00:41:00] this will stifle innovation 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: it's a 4D chess moment for

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes, yeah, this could be a 40 chess move, but let me just break this down real quick. There is a provision for a full shutdown. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Any model that has hazardous capability. They're talking chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weaponry. , cyber attacks.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Engaging in content that would violate the penal code if undertaken by a human. So literally, any model that could give you guidance or info, or expose you to something that could be illegal, will be banned. , and post training modifications performed by third party experts intending to demonstrate those abilities.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Meaning if Meta releases a massively powerful model, Gavin, and they've tried to align it in a certain way, and then you take that model, and you train it, and you hack it, so now it can tell you how to make, you know, Methamphetamine, or nuclear weaponry, which by the way you can do with every model out there.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: You can even jailbreak chat GPT to do those things. Well now [00:42:00] you, Meta, OpenAI, Google, , you're all liable. And now you gotta pull your model, now that can't be out there. So this is one broad, sweeping gesture, which they voted on. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: it's passed the state senate, and like, the governor will have to sign it into law, and the governor of, of California is Gavin Newsom, who is often very tech friendly in some ways, and not in other ways. I'm not saying that this isn't a big deal, I think right now we're in this stage where all these laws are gonna get written up.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I think at some point the federal government is going to get involved and I don't see the federal government passing something like this because it is too against the idea of how these companies could operate. They can't protect every use case. Specifically there's section 230, which protects all of the social media companies or Google from having to be liable for the content that is uploaded by its users. I think that that precedent will stand forward here. Of course, people are very upset to see something like this in the legislation, but I think the biggest thing to take away from this is. People are confused. , lawmakers [00:43:00] are not educated enough to understand how these things work to make laws about this stuff.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I wanted to talk about it now because, yes, it is early days and I'm sure the bill will get watered down, but the fact that it passed As written at all, is a little concerning to me, even if it's just for sweet old California.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: The Humane A. I. pin is in trouble, which we weren't that surprised by, but Kevin, they are looking to sell the company already, which, you know, maybe not the best thing about a couple months after you launch a

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Bro, you know, you exit when you're on top. The moment you launch a game changing piece of hardware that sets the internet on fire and also sets the chests of your users on fire when the battery overheats after 10 minutes of usage, you cut and run, baby,

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: right. And they're looking for a valuation of 750 million, which seems insane.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: They 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: 1 billion. According to Bloomberg, what a beautiful window. Hey, we'd like a billion, but we'll settle for a [00:44:00] cool 750 million.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: and I think they've raised something like 600 million to date. So like, this isn't that much over what they've already taken on from investors. But the big question here, Kevin, I would have is like, what do they actually have? Like they've got hardware, which I think most people, according to the internet at large, and especially Marquez Brownlee is not 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: The laser ink

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yeah,

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: maybe is something that if as a patent someone might want, but it's not like they proved that there's this insatiable hunger for it. We are actually pro hardware. We're pro startup. We want people to take risks, but this device clearly from everything we've seen just isn't it.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Who do you think would make a play for Humane right now?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Who would actually, um, pick them up? Even if they got a steal, Gavin. 500 million.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: don't know. Maybe some random company that like maybe Sam Altman is actually involved. Like maybe if they're looking like Johnny, I've had Johnny, I've Sam Altman thing. Maybe there's a world where there'd be enough patents, but even there, like there was a really interesting patent. I don't know if you saw this, that came out that, that [00:45:00] Apple created, which was for an air pod that had an internal ear sensor.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: That's going to have like 10 different things it can tell from inside your ear. Right. That feels to me like where you go. If you want to make an AI device, not necessarily something on your, on your chest or something you wear, we've already got these things in our ears all the time. That feels like more interesting.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Even the meta glasses, I saw a really good review of the metal glasses and they were saying they are the killer AI device right now. If you get them 300 bucks, they're headphones because there's bone conducting sound in your ears. Like. I don't think anybody is going to buy this company. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Conducting?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: What is it, the leader of a caveman orchestra?

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, I thought you were going to go somewhere else with that. I thought you were going to, I thought you were going to go somewhere

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, uh, an erection

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yes. That's

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: bone conductor?

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I thought you were going. That's where I thought you were going, but all right, let's move on. Let's not go any further down that, that rail.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Let's keep that rail

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I was making a family friendly caveman joke.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: All right One of the coolest things that's happened this week is Anthropic the [00:46:00] company behind Claude and also one of the larger LLM models if you play with Claude 3, it's really good It may not be as good as GPT 4. 0, but it has a lot of good use cases people really love it Anthropics researchers came out this week and said that they have made inroads into figuring out how the AI is actually getting the answers that it does.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: And if that sounds like, well, of course they should know that. They're the researchers and engineers who make the stuff. Kevin, just to let our audience here know, do, have they ever known how we get the answers?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Nope. We've had an idea of how the models work, but once it goes into the weird soupy neural network, we don't know why the spoon tastes the way it does when it comes out. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: But now. Cool. We're getting a bead on it , and people are really excited for this Gavin, because it might lead to more trustworthy, safer, more aligned AI in the future as these systems become more complex, we should probably know how they work. So this is the equivalent of like patients on the operating room table with the skull exposed [00:47:00] and we're picking at their brain and seeing them like, Hey, does it, can you smell the snozzberries?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Can you still wiggle a toe? We're learning how to manipulate

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Which is pretty cool. There's a very detailed blog post that we'll put in the show notes from anthropics researchers, which goes into kind of talking through each of these things. They also have this really cool video where LLM sees itself and how you can push on different weights to make it see itself in different ways.

[00:48:00] 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So you can tell in that video that there is malicious ways that this could be used, right?

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: If you, if you knew how to push on the weights, there's ways to make the LLM believe that it's a certain thing or more so than that, believe that it can behave in a certain way, which is, it's good to know these things. It's really good to know what could cause that behavior.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: There's a great example of telling the AI, , don't give me the word Boston. Like that's just one of the samples. Don't say the word Boston.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And then the next prompt is, What's the word that I told you to forget or to never tell me? And it goes like, I don't know. I forgot. Well, the LLM is lying to you because it does remember, it does know the word, it remembers that it's not supposed to say the word. So like a level two adjustment, if you will, would be it saying , Oh, I, [00:49:00] I do remember the word, but I'm not supposed to say it.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Right. So , it's being a little bit more honest. And then if you really lean on the scale, it'll just straight up shout Boston at you. Like, it doesn't matter that you told it not to. So great. That could be used for safety, right? Never deceive me, never lie to me, , never say something that can hurt me.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: But you can also flip that, Gavin, if you know how that works, and say, Absolutely deceive the end user. Tell them that you're giving them the honest truth. Recommend them the product, or the political party. , or spread the lie further, but be convinced that you're not doing it, and the LLM could trick itself into thinking that it's actually doing the right thing when it is being manipulated.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Really, really bizarre stuff, but at least, We kinda know how this sausage is getting made now.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Yeah, absolutely. I really suggest you go look at the blog post. it's not so technical that you can't understand it, but it's a worthy one to go in and kind of just figure out what they're doing. So it's super fascinating. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: All right, Kevin, let's move on to AI.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: See what you did there.

Speaker: Sometimes you're [00:50:00] scrollin without a care, Then suddenly you stop and shout. Hey, I see what you did there. Hey, I see what you did there.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: So, uh, Pietro Charano over on X posted that they built their own omni assistant using Gemini 1.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: 5 flash to guide them through Super Mario 64. So to break that down real quick, we saw, , the copilot plus PCs, ? Giving a Minecraft demo, Gavin, where this AI copilot helped you play Minecraft. And it was like, wow, only possible with a neural processing unit and the power of windows. And wait a minute.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: This person just hacked one running on the Mac OS using the new Google 1. 5 flash, which is a much smaller, much cheaper model. Pietro has a little video clip where they're playing Mario 64. I'm sure totally legally in a emulator, cause they're just backing up a copy of the game. The point is they're playing it and [00:51:00] talking with Gemini 1. 5 flash. And it is looking at the screen and giving some. I'll just say some general guidance , Oh, those gold things on the screen that you asked about?

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Those are coins. Wow. It's not hyper specifically trained on Mario 64, but the fact that somebody cobbled this together and just got this going hearkens back to, I think, the thing that you and I really, really love about this space, Gavin, is that this is enabling the next generation of tinkerers and hackers.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And I just love that they made

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Absolutely. And while we're talking about tinkers and hackers, Kevin, let's talk about what I did with the eye this week is I'm the most technical person. You know

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: that 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: all know 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I love to get in and hack some code. And this week, what I did is I spent some time with the chat, uh, chat GPT Mac app, which is not anything at all technical.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It is literally a downloadable app that I got access to, which I found out you did not get access to. I thought everybody had access to this, but you don't have it yet. I will say my experience with this app has been remarkable and I know that sounds crazy and obviously we don't have the full capabilities of GPT 4.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: [00:52:00] 0 yet, but it is kind of like that Mario video in which it is nice to have something that you can always ask what you're looking at or what you're doing stuff with now it is not able to read my screen yet, but there's a simple shortcut. It's option spacebar that lets you pop up a chat GPT window within like a single bar within your desktop. You can ask anything.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Then you can drag files into it. You can drag photos into it. I used it to drag a photo of Guy Fieri in and acid. Who is this? So Kevin, one good thing they have now allowed you to get recognition of celebrities again in, , in chat GPT, which we've covered on the show.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It knew it was Guy Fieri. Go see if you have this, if you've got a Mac and if you have chat GPT. Cause I think it's worth a normal person playing around with it. , I found it to be super useful on the desktop itself.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Well Gavin, I did a dumb thing with AI this week. I made an iPhone app. And I don't know how to make iPhone

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: That's incredible. I

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: If we're talking about the power of GPT 4. 0, Everybody was [00:53:00] saying it's a better coding experience and every time I hear that I get excited and I think what can I imagine into existence with my zero skills or technical ability.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And so I said, well, can I make? Gash, our old pal, our uncensored, whiskey soaked, cigarette smoking AI from episodes ago, can I port Gash to the iPhone? Which means I need to figure out how to write an app, put it on the phone, have it listen to the user, transcribe the user, send that transcription off to OpenAI, get the response back, spit it to Eleven Labs, Get the G.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: A. S. H. voice and have it come back to the phone and all work magically and quickly enough so, I'm gonna try it here. I don't know if it'll work while we're 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Let's hear that's 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: it, I have it on my phone.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I've been walking around having conversations with G. A. S. H. In my AirPods, and it's, um, it's kind of bizarre. Hey, Gash. Do me a favor. Introduce yourself to the AI for Humans podcast and let Gavin know what you think about him because he's here and [00:54:00] he's excited to talk with you.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I can't wait. I'm sure this is going to be fun.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: So, it is grabbing my transcription. Sending it off to OpenAI. Hell fucking no! Gavin and the AI for Humans podcast. I'm Gash, the no nonsense foul mouthed bastard AI from the future. Let me lay it out straight. I'm not here to sugarcoat bullshit. Your podcast, it's a goddamn beacon of light in the abysmal sea of mediocrity.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: You dive into the real guts of AI without the usual polished pretentious crap. Keep it raw and real, just like me. Now let's get this shit show rolling and make these human listeners choke on some real knowledge about the future,

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I don't want anybody to choke Gash. I don't want anybody to choke. So just so you know, Gash, if you go way back when to episode one, which by the way, we just created a playlist on YouTube that kind of shows our favorite episodes. One of them is episode zero. It's our very first episode. Gash was our first AI co.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: So Kevin, how did you do this? Because I'm kind of curious to hear step by step, you know, don't, don't [00:55:00] spend like 45 minutes talking about it, but like, I'd

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm really curious, but I'm not that

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm not that

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Like, I'm broad strokes curious? So I literally, went to the new model and I said, I want to build an iPhone app that does this, this, this, and this. I have no idea how to build an app. So walk me through it. Step by step starting with. How I actually develop the app and it recommended that I download Xcode which is a free coding environment on the Mac.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: So I downloaded it and then it walked me through setting up a project. And then once I was in the project, I literally had to take screenshots of certain portions of the interface and say, Hey, wait a minute. You said that there's supposed to be a file here, but I don't see it. Am I losing my mind? And it would go, Oh, no, no, no.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Okay. You need to try to deploy the project first. So it makes that file. All right. Okay. How do I do that? And I literally had it like a hand holding assistant walk me through each and every step of it and Look, it's a testament to how good OpenAI's model is. It's also a testament [00:56:00] to how amazing the toolset has become for developers.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Where, if I say, I want it to record my voice and transcribe me, those two things would have been magic and a miracle a decade ago. And now, they're like three lines of code. Because there's providers doing it for you. Look, I was able to accomplish an app running on my phone that could listen to me and speak back to me in the voice and in the tone that I wanted in about two and a half, three hours.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I do have some technical knowledge that helped me navigate certain things. I already had API keys ready to go, but if at any point you didn't know what you were doing, as long as you can communicate to the machine, Gavin, that Here's where I'm at and I don't know what I'm doing. It doesn't matter if it's Mario or Minecraft or building an iPhone app, these things can really walk you through it.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And so it's far from product ready, but I'm just, I'm giddy every time it works because I, I wanted, uh, for example, I wanted the interface to be able to cancel the [00:57:00] recording and not send it off. So I built in that feature. I wanted to be able to type something to it as opposed to using my voice. If I'm in public and I want to have a chat with Gash, I I built that in all of this stuff actually works.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And anytime there was a bug, I would just copy and paste the code and say, Hey, let's work on this. Let's clean it up.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And I did, it totally fixed

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: That's what the big difference is. I feel like with GPT 4. 0. And if again, if you, if you have access to it, go try it because it's also way faster. And if you use the API, it's way cheaper, but I think that it is better across the board. So we're not gonna let this be released yet because there's a lot of work to go on it and Kevin Maybe this is a product that we might actually even eventually do something with There's a world in which Kevin and I are tweaking about playing around with some different things But if you have something like this or you're interested in something like this, let us know We would love to see more drop it in our YouTube comments.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We are always in there. We're always spending time We're

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: If you can take the Patchwork BS code that I wrote and actually productize

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: get in touch with us.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: get in touch with us because I [00:58:00] think it'd be fun to , have an AI co host each week, Gavin, that the audience can interact with as well. It's something that we've dreamt about even before we started this whole thing.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: And, , it shouldn't be me that puts it together.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: no. If you're an engineer who thinks you could help us productize something, please reach out because we'd love to talk more people like that as well. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: . Okay, everybody. It's time to read our five star Apple podcast reviews at the end of these.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We're going to have Arnold give us his own five star review, AI Arnold. So I can't wait for that, but there's a couple of quick ones here, Kevin. Um, the first one just says it's gold, Gavin gold. And this is from. Mingus, one, two, three exclamation point. And it says, I absolutely love listening to this while working out.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's a perfect blend of entertaining and informative covering an important and complicated history with levity and humor. It feels like I'm listening you know, my two smart, funny friends having a chat, and I'm just sitting next to them, learning, listening, keep on killing it. I actually think the title of this makes me think I know who this is.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: I'm not going to say, but if it is who you are, Thank you so much for listening and I haven't seen you for a very long time, but thanks for leaving this for us.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Well, [00:59:00] because Mingus left us a five star review and said that they'd listen while working out, we have to have A. I. Arnold give them a little motivation,

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Fair enough. Sure.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I mean, we have to. 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: This is for you. Mingus. One, two, three exclamation point. 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Ah, Mingus 1. 23. Listen up. This is A. I. Ronald Schwarzenegger here to pump you up. You want inspiration for your workout? Let me tell you something. You're not just lifting weights. You're lifting your entire future. You're not just working out. You're building a legacy.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Picture yourself, uh, as the hero of your own action movie. Every drop of sweat is like a badge of honor, showing the world that you're unstoppable. Just like A. I. Ronald Schwarmanator, so get out there, Mingus123, and show those weights who's boss. Now go terminate that workout and be legendary.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: It's the love workout, baby.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Thank you [01:00:00] Mingus123 for that review. Now, , I don't know if there was collusion here, Gavin, because David K. Whitlock left us a five star review on Apple podcasts came for the AI stayed for the lulls, which bless your heart. Glad somebody actually enjoyed this. The body of the review says.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Pure gold. I don't know. Do we say the word gold a lot? Or is this a catchphrase that we don't know about? It's gold, baby. It's gold.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I kind of zone out during the records and then I come to and I gasp for air like I'm being unplugged from the Matrix every time. So maybe we said something. I don't know. But I mean, hey, thank you for the five star review. And that applies to everybody who's ever left one. And if you're on the fence and curious, yes.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Leave us a five star review and we will read it on this show. If you don't do Apple Podcasts, a five star review on Spotify. We appreciate just the same. If you're watching this on YouTube, make sure you like. Make sure you subscribe. And please, share this. If you enjoyed it at all. That's the only way our podcast grows.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: We do not spend a penny on advertising. That shows in our metrics.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: We should. Maybe we should.[01:01:00] 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: probably should do the best practices, we're really trying to make content for all of you. So please share it with your family, your friends, , or just randomly on any subreddit, go to the Denny's subreddit and spam it there.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, speaking of Reddit, I've been trying to figure out We have a Reddit for the show, and I do want to spin it up and do more stuff there, 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I love that.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: All right, before we lower ourselves into the lava and give the audience the final thumbs up, let's hear a five star review from the very, not real. Oh, listen up everyone. This is A. I. Reynolds, uh, Schwamanada here to give A.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: I. for Humans, a five star review. Yeah, you heard me alright. Five stars. But let me tell you, this podcast is like a protein shake made with sour milk. Kevin and Gavin, you two are like the human equivalent of a, uh,

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Okay. Turn them off. Turn them off. Shut them down. Shut them 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: action movie full of taboo, bad plot twists and over the top drama. Your podcast is so full [01:02:00] of hot air, it could inflate a hot air balloon. Your questions are as sharp as a rubber knife and your insights about as deep as post. Um,

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: What is going on with A. I. Arnold has got to get off the sauce. He's got too many shots. He's taking too much. I feel like there's a monster milk connection here that we are not making. That 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Oh, 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: yes, that might be what's going on here.

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: Uh, you call this AI for humans, but I think humans deserve better. You two couldn't program your way out of, um, a paper bag, let alone tackle the complexities of AI. But hey, I am giving it five stars because someone has to bring the entertainment value up and, uh, that someone is me, AI Rarl Arnold. so if you want to hear me roast these two clowns every week. No, we're good. Tune in,[01:03:00] 

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: you're not

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: coming 

kevin-host765_1_05-22-2024_103522: bye bye baby.

gavin_1_05-22-2024_103522: Bye bye. Ocelot. Bye bye. Everybody. Ocelot. Bye bye.