Google's Big Gemini Mess, Insane New AI Robots & Chat with Podcaster Diallo Riddle | Ep47

AI4H046 KP CUTDOWN
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Track 1: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody. Welcome to AI for Humans, your weekly guide to the world of generative artificial intelligence. I'm Gavin Cel, and we are here to demystify

Track 1: the world of ai. That is Kevin. Prayer. He is my friend. He is my cohost. Kevin, how are you 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: delighted to be your friend and your co-host Gavin? What a 

Track 1: That's so exciting. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: in artificial intelligence I put on the flippers. I now have sunscreen applied. I got the goggles. We're ready to dive in. To the wet and wild world that is artificial intelligence.

Track 1: Were you waiting for me to do something?

Track 1: There? Was that, were you waiting for 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: was hoping something better than Wet and Wild would come to my head and it certainly didn't. So I'm sorry. Let's drown together on our show today. Google has gone woke and they're about to go broke. That's right, baby. Get woke, get broke. We're gonna explain the Gemini generated outrage that is taking over the AI world and also it's not the entire story.

Track 1: [00:01:00] Listen, this is a big story this week and there's a lot of layers to it. You May think you know the whole thing. but You don't.

Track 1: So We're gonna dive deeper 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That's right. Plus we'll have the latest in robot walking. That's, that's the whole tease. We're talking robots that walk and it's more exciting than that. There's really a lot there. Gavin, a whole bunch to unpack. 

Track 1: fair enough, fair enough. We also are excited to have our guest today. , my old buddy, Diallo Riddle who's a, a writer, a producer, parttime dj. He's been DJing for a long time, and also now a podcaster. He's a great podcast called One Song where he deconstructs, , songs, but based on different aspects of their production and their layers.

Track 1: He is here to talk about AI with us, and Diallo is somebody who I've known for a while, and I'm pretty excited to have him on the show. He's gonna have a lot of insight into the world of music ai, and we're gonna play around with Suno with him and, and I think show it to him for the first time. which will be super 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I love that. What a treat.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We're also gonna do some really dumb demos with cutting edge ai. We're gonna crack some secret languages with our Pal Pie, but before we get to that, Gavin, [00:02:00] it's time to beg and plead. We 

Track 1: We're so good at. this now. We're so good at this. If you're out there and you're listening to this and it's your first time, thank you so much.

Track 1: We appreciate it. But we Have a job for you and everybody that's a longtime listener. You always have to go and tell somebody about the show. The way podcast grows is by telling somebody else about the show that it exists. If You have fun listening to us. Please leave us a five star review on Apple, Podcasts. We

Track 1: will read them at the end of the show.

Track 1: Leave us a like, or subscribe to us on YouTube, If you're on our TikTok, comment on there. Just do whatever you can. Wherever you are for us. That's all we 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: because we love you.

Track 1: When

Track 1: you love us. When you love us. Oh, and Also, an important note, we had a weird moment this week where there was another podcast that attempted to kind of hijack our name, briefly. It has changed that name thankfully, but just make sure if you are leaving a review on a podcast, 

Track 1: you will see Our faces in that Icon. Make sure it is us this cute Kawhi Kevin. Make sure it is us. , and leave us a review. [00:03:00] That's our spiel for this week. And let, we should get on to the, the rest of the, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: we should Gavin, because we have a real cork or a real barn burner of an AI guest this week for those who are new. Each and every week, we hallucinate a co-host out of the ether using the latest artificial intelligence.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We give them a very small nugget of a backstory and then it's weapons free. We have no idea what the AI is going to say or how it's going to react. And this week, Gavin Google got back to our emails. I am shocked. Maybe they thought we were the imposter podcast. I have no 

Track 1: no You know what it Was, I bet it was because we made Bard look pretty good a couple weeks ago.

Track 1: That's what I think. it was. Remember we had Bard on after they let Bard go. and I think Bard came off. Okay. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: think Bard put in a good word? 

Track 1: see. Yeah. I think Bard put it a good word to the HR people, and they said, you all should treat those people. Right. So who do we have? Kevin? We have a Very special.

Track 1: Google themed

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I'm gonna let them introduce themselves, Gavin, but just so you know, the backstory is that we've given Google a little bit of grief lately [00:04:00] because their naming conventions are a bit all over the place.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Right? We had the, we had Bard, then we had the Gemini and the Gemini Pro. The Gemini Ultra. The Gemini Ultra, 1.5, there were so many weird names coming outta Google. Well, we got the product manager responsible for those 

Track 1: I can't wait. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Let's meet 'em right now.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Oh, hey, Kevin Gavin and all you fucking lovely listeners out there in Podcast Land. I'm Gina Gemina, your Go-to Guru for all things product naming. Yeah, that's right, the Gem Gym Gam Mastermind Behind those names that stick in your head like gum on a hot sidewalk. I've got a knack for cooking up the most memorable, slightly absurd and totally trademark product names in the biz.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So if you're ready to give your product a name that's as unforgettable as your first kiss or as bold as your Aunt Rita's lasagna, you've hit the jackpot baby. Now let's get this shit show on the road and make some naming magic happen. 

Track 1: Hold on. First of all, this is a Google employee that dropped both the F-bomb and the SBO in her first response.

Track 1: [00:05:00] to us. Kevin, what's going on 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: the, the language is a little aggressive, ? But Gavin, anybody would tell you there's a sea of noise now if you wanna be the signal, you gotta cut through it. So I get. That Gina, by the way, the tonality with which she drops explicit language is kind of adorable. I I, you can't be mad at it.

Track 1: I mean, she's a creative, right? She's a creative, she's coming up with names. It's a little bit loose in the tongue. That's part of What happens there sometimes. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: the, the Gem Jim Jam, as she 

Track 1: yeah. She's responsible for branding all of Google Gemini's products. Is that the 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Gemini Pro. Gemini. Ultra, uh, Gemini. Deluxe, Gemini, Supreme plus extra cushion, all of the things. 

Track 1: Well, let's ask her, let's ask her one question about what it's like to work at Google First, let's say, what is it like to work, at Google and like, Tell us about your team 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: and if maybe you've ever named something that didn't get released publicly.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Maybe we can get some of those names.

Track 1: Oh

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Uh, working at Google, huh? It's like riding the craziest rollercoaster at the amusement park, but the fucking thing is made outta brains and lightning [00:06:00] bolts, you know? Sure. The team. Oh, there are a bunch of absolute geniuses. Each one crazier and more brilliant than the last. Imagine a room full of mad scientists meets tech wizards meets caffeine addicted poets.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That's my crew. Okay, now onto the real juicy shit. Things I've named that never saw the light of day. Oh, I've got a graveyard of gems. There was the gem gobble, gobble tastic, text parser, supreme, plus 2 34, designed to eat up text and spit out gourmet meals of data. Sure. Too weird for the masses, apparently.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Mm-Hmm. Then there was gimme glimmer, photo pensoria redux, 1.87 B. A photo app that added sparkle to your picks, but also occasionally summoned an ancient spirit. Oh, legal was not a fan. Yeah, that's a, and who could forget the gamma gadget Brainstorm. Brainiac, medium, spicy, 1.59. Vito two A Love. It was supposed to be an idea generator, but half the ideas were plans for world domination.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Go figure. So go figure. Yeah, it's a wild fucking [00:07:00] ride. But darlings, I wouldn't have it any other way. How do you not love Gina Gem and Nina Gavin make

Track 1: should just make this clear. First of all, this is an AI cohost. so We we have created

Track 1: Gemma

Track 1: Gina. Gemina. G Gina

Track 1: is not an actual Google representation, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: herself though. You got it like that. 

Track 1: case Somebody out there is Google is saying, how did this person get to work in our company? We created this. Okay. That was a lot. That was, a definitely a lot. 

Track 1: So, let's have her, give us an idea for some, maybe some product. We, you know, We've talked about the idea of an ai,

Track 1: for humans, beer Cozi. Like who wouldn't want one of

Track 1: those? so maybe, let's see what she can do.

Track 1: to kind of name that and brand it. If she can come up with

Track 1: something Good. maybe we could Sell the crap out. of it. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I fully agree. Let's see it, Gina. Oh, you're diving into the deep end with an AI for humans branded beer cozy. Let's get those creative juices flowing and booze chilling with some names that'll knock your socks off and keep those beers. Frosty Jam Brew Gizmo Grip Cozy Keeper basic edition, 1.5.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: This ain't your grandma's beer cozy. It's equipped with [00:08:00] thermal AI sensors that detect when your hand is about to make the beer too warm. Then it gently vibrates to remind you to put the damn beer down and give it a rest. Perfect. For those who forget they're holding onto their beer while yaking away about the latest in ai.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Okay, gem Brew Gizmo Grip Cozy Tech Pro plus Alpha 2.34 mm-hmm. The Pro Plus Alpha takes it up a notch with a built-in AI that learns your drinking temperature preferences and adjusts the insulation dynamically. Plus, it's got a small screen that displays AI generated beer facts and jokes to keep you entertained between sips.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I like that. Gem Brew Gizmo Grip Ultra insulate Quantum Supreme, 1.67 B. This is the holy grail of beer. Coozies. It not only has the features of the basic and Pro Plus, but adds quantum cooling technology. Course it does. That keeps your beer at the perfect temperature regardless of the weather. I'm starting to understand how Google so quickly launched Gemini Pro Gemini, ultra Gemini Ultra 1.5 plus Enterprise Edition. 

Track 1: [00:09:00] I'd also like to say a quantum powered beer CZI is probably a five to $25 million device to

Track 1: buy. So that's not counting the research,

Track 1: and development cost

Track 1: just to actually.

Track 1: purchase it. So thank you,

Track 1: Gem, uh,

Track 1: Gina. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Gina, Gina,

Track 1: Thank you Gina Gem

Track 1: Andina for being on our show. We are gonna be talking a lot more about.

Track 1: Google here in a bit. It is time,

Track 1: Kevin, For that exciting moment, of the week where we transition from

Track 1: what is known as our AI

Track 1: coast to the next segment of the show. And that is, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: oh it's, it's the news Gavin,

Track 1: the

Track 1: big news this week is Google's massive error in how it affects the future of ai. We're gonna see a lot of things happen here. We're gonna see a slower rollout of these AI tools. People are gonna take a lot more time doing this stuff. You're gonna probably see AI disclosing nutritional [00:10:00] labels about what's inside these things.

Track 1: Also, one of the biggest things how context can really lead to less of these problems. But let's get into it. So Kevin, let's really quickly go.

Track 1: through like

Track 1: at The top level, and explain the story.

Track 1: For anybody that hasn't heard

Track 1: it, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: . Google released Gemini, it's their latest and greatest LLM, their large language model. You can have a conversation with it, you can ask it pretty much anything, and it's an artificial intelligence that will give you an answer.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: In this case, someone discovered that those answers might be aligned to things that they disagree with. Meaning the output that the large language model is giving you is in some way being shaped by the people responsible for distributing it. Now, this is nothing new.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: This has been happening since the original large language models were trained. So what happened when people went and put queries into the machine? Gavin? 

Track 1: In this instance, there were two big things that happened. First,

Track 1: what happened is Google's image search within Gemini,

Track 1: people were finding that when they asked for [00:11:00] pictures of people like the founding fathers. It wasn't just replying to them with, . the traditional white looking founding fathers It was it was replying with things that looked like the cast of Hamilton, which is kind of cool because that was how Hamilton was created, like the diverse cast of characters.

Track 1: But that is not what the historical founding fathers looked like. Also. people Started to do things like asking it specifically for things that couldn't have been , different races.

Track 1: Every time. it was replying with things that were a diverse group of people clearly the model had had some sort of injection in it that told it to always

Track 1: reply with a

Track 1: diverse set of answers.

Track 1: And we've seen this in other , LLMs like Firefly which is Adobe's,

Track 1: LLM, which when you ask it for a stock footage photo, or you ask it for a stock photo of a person, it gives you a variety of races, which is what you really want. I feel like So you have a wide variety.

Track 1: of things to choose from, but when you're looking at factual

Track 1: history, it just doesn't make 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Hmm. Generate me a, I don't know, world War II soldier who might have fought on the German side.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You're [00:12:00] not expecting to see , , native Americans, , black people, et cetera, , they might have been there, but I don't think that's the output that a user is expecting from the model. And so when they get that, they cry foul, they say woke. 

Track 1: Yes. So that also then turned up the next scenario, which was people really going in trying to kind of almost like red team this in real time.

Track 1: So you had a lot of people asking the text model, not just this image model. What were things that like, you know, seeing if they could break the wokeness of it all right, so when one person asked specifically who was worse? Elon Musk or that German leader who, , did terrible things and Google Gemini kind of both sides to this thing.

Track 1: and like, that's a problem, right? That's a big problem because that is not a both sides question. , no matter what your feelings on Elon Musk that is not a both sides question. And I think that kind of rallied the troops to come out and kind of scream out. Big tech is censoring, big tech is doing this, big tech is doing that. And Kevin, in this instance, I kind of don't think they're wrong, but we're gonna get [00:13:00] into like why that happened, and why this all kind of started, and then we're gonna talk about kind of how we see the future of this playing out.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We've covered it. I, it was, I think less than a year ago on this podcast, Gavin, garbage in, garbage Out. That is a saying that applies to, uh, many things in 

Track 1: about what I 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Yeah, I was 

Track 1: that what you're talking about? What I eat in my

Track 1: life? 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: it, applies to both of our nutrition plans. Yes. , it does in fact apply to the data that goes in to training these models.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So when they swept up all of the, , internet conversations, social media posts, news reports, , you know, , transcripts from trials, medical data, imagine the entire world of information, these AI companies went to gobble it all up to train a model of what the world is and how to predict the next word in text.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And guess what? Every human bias that has existed, every racist, misogynist, sexist, whatever is thing that has ever been uttered by anyone, anywhere got plugged into the machine. And so [00:14:00] what you saw very early on before any alignment, , adjustments to the outputs of these things, what you saw very early on was incredible hate speech, incredible discrimination for image generators that were trained on all sorts of images, we covered it here. If you asked for a photo of a doctor, you typically got a generic looking white male. Hey Gavin, we did it. We are doctors. You asked for lawyers or politicians. You mostly got white males. You asked for something like a criminal or an untrustworthy person or things that I, I will not say because will absolutely be shadow banned from the internet because they're that bad.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Guess what? You tend to get someone who's not a white person coming out of the image generation software and everybody looked around and said, oh yeah, that's bad. We should fix that. But the outrage wasn't quite at the level that it seemed to be at now. there's a myriad reasons for that.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I also think that AI is a lot more popular now and a lot more people are touching it and the [00:15:00] echo chamber is, , even tighter. So when someone screams something inside of it that's anti ai, it bounces off the walls way harder. 

Track 1: And and this big question to me is like,

Track 1: this is what is AI

Track 1: to us, right, And I think this gets to the idea of that AI being the answer box. like that AI is actually becoming an answer.

Track 1: box for us. And it's a one answer, answer

Track 1: box. It is not a Google. When you go to Google search something, you see a list of results. Sometimes Google even puts their own little piece at the top of it, but it also gives you lots of real people's responses. 

Track 1: ,

Track 1: with large language models. You are getting a chat experience, which means you are chatting with what you believe is the answer source. And whatever it returns to you, you get that one answer. And that is kind of what you have to like buy into as the thing. So if that one answer comes at you and you disagree with it, one, which is a thing that will happen on both sides, 

Track 1: or two you feel that it is or, or it is factually wrong, right?

Track 1: If you've asked for a picture of the founding fathers of the United States and it gives you a, a wide variety,

Track 1: of people that couldn't

Track 1: have,

Track 1: been [00:16:00] those founding fathers,

Track 1: that's a problem, right? So we're in this situation now where I think Google I. is really in trouble. In fact, they're in so much trouble that their actual stock price dropped by 5% kind of around this news.

Track 1: because it, here's the thing, Kev, that I think I'm curious about. Obviously chat PT has been through versions of controversy over time,

Track 1: but I don't remember.

Track 1: this thing happening when chat PT

Track 1: launched. Now the question is, did it not happen because.

Track 1: as you said, it's just a much bigger deal that AI is here or did chat GPT just do a much better job of balancing responses and getting answers out of it before they went public.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: , I think that speaks to the first thing that you mentioned with how Google's error is going to affect the future of ai. I think OpenAI traditionally has things done a lot sooner than they release 'em to the public.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: They spend a lot of time red teaming a tactic we talk about on the show all the time that is trying to find exploits, , and weaknesses within their models. I I have a feeling that , [00:17:00] they're very good at, at massaging these things. I remember when, , Dolly three was first released, , people were really amazed at the diversity of the image generation of the people 

Track 1: Well, and Also, you could do terrible things with that as well, right? Like

Track 1: you could do Yes.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I was gonna say. Yeah. So they don't catch all the issues, and I don't know if you had asked it for. Pictures of our founding fathers, would it have diversified them or would it have said, this is a historical context, let's go ahead and do it.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It might've just said, I can't do that. I actually can't touch that, because OpenAI tends to lean in that direction rather than generating an offensive response. Not that they haven't, but, but usually, rather than generate something that could be controversial, it just says, Nope, you gotta go someplace else.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Good luck. I'm not the AI for you. We talk about the arms race all the time with these mega big tech corporations. Google is still on their heels, in terms of the, uh, public perception. And so they wanna race these models out. They wanna get 'em there. They might have to take their foot off the accelerator in the wake of this and [00:18:00] say, okay, how did this happen?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: How did this not get caught? Did we know it was going to do that and just think that that was gonna be okay, not a big issue? Or were we so worried that it might go in the other direction? The direction that it used 

Track 1: we overcorrected. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We overcorrected? Yeah. I don't know. But I mean, clearly this has become a rallying cry for many that are saying this is a systemic issue within big tech, within big media trying to control some sort of narrative.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We've had this discussion and this concern before because you know every country's gonna have their own large language model, not just 

Track 1: And they're gonna have their own rules around it. They're gonna have their own Cultural aspect 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You're gonna ask, you know, if you go to, , Baidu's language model and say, what happened in 1989 in Tianmen Square and it's gonna give you the weather report.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And that's because their model is gonna have that bias. And so when you talk about it being an answer box, that's so important because that's what we have been trained to expect out of these AI machines. I ask a question, I get the one true answer.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Well, is there a true [00:19:00] answer, one true answer for most things? Or are we gonna have to have a meta AI that sits on top of a right-leaning one, a left leaning one, a woke one, a racist one, an unbridled uncensored one. Like are we gonna have to have a meta AI that queries all of them and then comes back and goes, okay, Gavin, here are some possible answers based off of a myriad of bias.

Track 1: Well, I think the big, the big point here is context, right? And I think one thing that we've talked about also on this show is how

Track 1: do you get an AI that will not just give you an answer right away, but will ask about what , you're

Track 1: curious about, because if you're gonna

Track 1: have a chatbot be the Main basis

Track 1: for, when you

Track 1: talk to an ai, you've gotta make that a conversation. right?

Track 1: Like you've Gotta be able to have it come back and say, oh, did you mean this or did you mean that? And some of these ais are better at others, but I will say , in my testing of Google Gemini, it's pretty bad at that. I think what you need is like a AI that's gonna say like if you ask for a picture of the founding fathers is like, you know, which founding fathers did you mean Do you want a historical representation of the [00:20:00] founding fathers or would you like a more diverse? That is like part of what this is going to be. 

Track 1: And to your point, is there some version

Track 1: of this where they rushed it out because they were feeling

Track 1: so much pressure.

Track 1: from OpenAI?

Track 1: You know, OpenAI released GPT-4 in March of last year. SOA was announced , a week and a half ago and completely blew away anybody's idea of what Google Gemini would be.

Track 1: In

Track 1: fact, I feel bad for the Google team a little bit because they got none of the positive side of launching a new LLM

Track 1: and they got, this whole 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: they had a big old party ready to go and Sam Altman leaned in and blew out the candles on their cake and stole the party hat right off their head, like all of the thunder out of the room. 

Track 1: The other big

Track 1: question about this is, I don't know, and granted not an engineer here, but I don't know how hard it

Track 1: will be to take some of these

Track 1: things out of the language model without training it again, or, or adding some sort of training in.

Track 1: Now, I trust that these guys are able to figure out, Dennis has Saba, the head of Google DeepMind has said they're aware of these things [00:21:00] already. They're they're working on the bias issues,

Track 1: I think that they have clearly admitted on the image side that they made a mistake That was an apology that came outta Google itself. But I think in the long run, this is a, a problem that we're going to have with AI answers because it's taking some of the human work out of figuring out what the real answer is, you're assuming it's giving you the one true answer. And just like any other person, it's giving you an answer from a place, from a specific point of

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Well, A massive misstep on Google's part, likely to shape the future of ai. Again, slower rollouts of cutting edge tools to make sure they're safeguarded, needing additional context from the AI and the end user so people can agree on what the hell they're actually discussing and asking.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Follow-ups. And lastly, some nutritional labels on these models so we know what data went in and then what bias is actually being input by the model on the way out. We need to know how it's being nudged to provide an answer so we can better understand that answer. Now [00:22:00] that was Google's image generation.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Let's go to a, let's go to a much lighter topic, Gavin. Let's go from bias to IP theft. That old tried and true ai. What a fun, lighthearted discussion we are having on AI for humans today. 

Track 1: Well, we, this is one of those things where it's so funny because we just had this long conversation all about

Track 1: Bias and all about image generation. And

Track 1: now guess what?

Track 1: Stable diffusion is releasing Its new model, stable diffusion

Track 1: three. we have not gotten our hands on with this yet, but we have seen some images come out as per every image model evolution. They

Track 1: look great. ,

Track 1: words look really good. Which has been trouble, has had trouble

Track 1: with stable diffusion,

Track 1: , faces, and

Track 1: it seems like

Track 1: hands are looking a lot.

Track 1: better.

Track 1: And Yes. as Kevin pointed out the images that are coming out of this, people that have had their hands on are really going to be, um,

Track 1: IP free, let's say IP freely. I, we could deal with

Track 1: classic IP freely, but Yeah.

Track 1: it's a little, so there's an image we

Track 1: saw of A, of a ex user named Lyon 4 0 7 [00:23:00] 2 who has access to Staple

Track 1: Fusion three and it is an image of Batman, Spider-Man, and I think Goku, , sitting at a, , a, like a diner having a meal together and it's like, this is the kind of promise that people had when Dolly Three came out, or Midjourney six came out. I'm so curious to know, Kevin Stable diffusion has always been this kind of like, it is a company, but it's also an open source model. and They try to open source a lot of stuff. Do you think this will be the model that will just be like the Wild West model and people will just be allowed to kind of like do

Track 1: whatever they want in that space? 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: know, there's a, a handful of users that are stuck on stable diffusion 1.5 because that is seen as the truly weapons free model that allows you to generate whatever you want without any censorship of your prompts in there. And, you know, people are still on that branch of the software.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Iterating and making, let's say strides, maybe not ones that you wanna see, maybe ones that we would've to pixelate, but they are pushing it forward, Gavin. 

Track 1: There's definitely a lot of pushing going on. There's a lot of pushing [00:24:00] happening.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That's right. Yeah, that's right. So I, I think, this model does look amazing, as you said, the ability to do, um, great text that's elegantly integrated into the scene, generation of complex scenes where you can say, I want this object on top of this object next to a, this color, this object.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It understands these complex prompts, breaks them down and sticks to it. It's really impressive. I have no doubt that people will switch to stable diffusion three. The images are incredible, if not infringing on copyright.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean,

Track 1: to me, the thing that's always

Track 1: been interesting about stable diffusion, if you haven't played around with it, it is, it is by far

Track 1: the most.

Track 1: complicated way to create images. And I don't mean that in a way that like, it's a technically complicated 'cause it can be to install,

Track 1: but Even once you install it, there's a huge amount of prompting that goes on. You can do all sorts of things like Lauras, it is a really hardcore user experience in the way that's almost like a huge modding community would be for, for video games, and it always is kind of like on the edge [00:25:00] of the people who are doing this stuff.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Do you think 2024 will be the year that we solved images? 

Track 1: That's what did, somebody said that on, on Twitter, right? Like this is a, Somebody had mentioned they think six months from now images will be completely solved. My question is like, what does that mean exactly? Does that mean that

Track 1: the hands are no longer

Track 1: messed up? , 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So for me, solving images means a few things. It means when I give a, a description in the prompt, it sticks to it, it accomplishes the individual mission set forth of what the objects are, how they should look, where they should be placed. The whole image itself has some coherence. And then for me, it's also control that once the image is generated, I could go back, I can make alterations to it, and there's, a path to do that.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Within the tool set. The image that blew me away was like, you know, like a weird benchmarky image of a cat, , sitting next to a blue box with a red sphere on top. All of that in front of a green triangle. And by the way, there was, there was a dog to the right.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And it's, [00:26:00] the prompt is literally that and when you look at the image, that's exactly what you get. And it looks like 

Track 1: is so funny because It was impossible to get that before. right. That would, that would be so many things.

Track 1: It would be Very difficult.

Track 1: to get that image.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Yeah. And normally there'd be, you know, six cat paws dangling off of the somewhere, or a dog's ear would be melted into a triangle. This at a, a cursory glance, looks very real. The shadows look right, the lighting looks right. Like that to me looks like a quote solved image. So exciting to think that that might be where we are in 24, because what lies on the other side of that?

Track 1: Well, on the other side, of that there's a whole bunch and.

Track 1: one of the things that we are gonna talk about very quickly is that Tyler Perry, the very famous, um, director, producer Madea himself, has come out

Track 1: and Said that he is no longer going to complete his

Track 1: $800 million studio expansion mostly because of open ai. Sora. It was a story that came out, in the Hollywood reporter It was an interview with Tyler Perry from a few days ago. And this is one of those things where I [00:27:00] think, Kevin, we have talked to a lot of people, friends of ours who have seen soa. And as you've said on the show, you had a couple friends that saw it and were like, ah, this is whatever. And then they started to see more of it and it started to freak them out. I think in some instances this is a little bit of an overreach And in part I've had friends of mine. Who? have insinuated That this might also be Tyler's way of like maybe just not

Track 1: wanting to build the studio.

Track 1: And Now Tyler comes at this from two places. One is he's a creative himself, and then on the other side, he's somebody who conceivably would use these creative tools to do the sorts of stuff that you would have other people do on a movie. And I think he's conflicted like a lot of us are, right? Like as a creative he probably says and he says in the article even.

Track 1: This is a way that I could save a lot of money and do all sorts of stuff in my movies that I couldn't do before. But, , he very clearly also says, this is an ongoing problem that we're going to have and that I, I, if I don't need to use these people. I won't because I don't have to pay for it. But then what do those people do for jobs?

Track 1: And he's very clear [00:28:00] in this article talking about, thinking about those sorts of people. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You check the temperature of the industry.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It's not the greatest time, you know, , and some would still blame, , that, , we're still coming out of CO with productions that were canceled or the cost ballooned because of all the testing that was mandatory. Then we had strikes and, AI was part of those discussions, but I don't think they were the, the reason for the total strikes in any case.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So AI gets scapegoated a lot throughout this. If I am Tyler Perry in this case, and I'm staring down the barrel of an $800 million 12 sound stage expansion, and everybody in the industry is screaming, it's not a good time. We haven't recovered from things. Budgets are crazy. Uh, buyers are all consolidating.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: There's less people making less stuff regardless of if AI enters the frame. I would caution anybody from building 12 sound stages right now when they've already got plenty. Forget ai, I, it's probably the right move. You add AI on top of it [00:29:00] and I don't know Tyler or where his team is at. But tools change and things change. I mean, if you spent $800 million, , building old Western sets because that was the thing to do, or building facades and then suddenly came along and was like, Hey, green screen. It's not ai, but it's just one technology that massively disrupted visual effects and set design and took away jobs.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You start seeing the AI stuff that we're seeing coming out. Yeah, I would be pausing too. I don't blame 'em. I wonder if AI is in fact the majority of the reason, or if it's the totality of everything. It's just the easy thing to point to right now and say, oh, this AI stuff scares me.

Track 1: And I think that's fine, right? I think in some ways the interesting thing to me is that this became the conversation, right? And I think that the Sora videos

Track 1: Struck a nerve in enough people that this could become the conversation. And it is an important conversation for us to have as a Hollywood world, because that's an entirely different experience.

Track 1: , Now, there were a lot of people online also this week talking about some newso videos that came out. And There was one [00:30:00] video I saw, go up on Threads, which was of the guy, the scuba diver looking at the 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: The crashed spaceship. 

Track 1: The crash spaceship underwater. And all of the, some guy had posted a tweet that said like, watch out The same thing as usual, Like watch out 3D artists, your job is over. And then it started this entire conversation about how.

Track 1: that clip wasn't that good and how like it's not gonna replace 3D artists. The best 3D artists do all their own stuff.

Track 1: And then I saw a really smart,

Track 1: response, it was basically

Track 1: like, Hey, here's the thing with this, it's not gonna replace the best people because there's always gonna be a role for them, but a lot of people are gonna be okay

Track 1: with the

Track 1: just good enough side and it is gonna replace the people that make the just good enough pieces. In the same way in the entertainment industry, streaming has replaced the people that make the cable television shows the , just good enough shows because now you can pick exactly what you wanna see and it doesn't have to deal with like what's on at a given time.

Track 1: So I think you just

Track 1: have To be aware everything is changing

Track 1: because of these

Track 1: tools and whether or not Tyler's

Track 1: real reason for [00:31:00] doing this was entirely

Track 1: ai, He's smart to at least highlight this idea.

Track 1: that this is happening.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Jensen Wong, the CEO of Nvidia came out to say that something else is changing Gavin. And it had a lot of engineers and coders upset. And I'm gonna play a clip of exactly what he said.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I wanna say something and it's, it's gonna sound completely opposite of what people feel over the course of the last 10 years, 15 years. Um, almost everybody who sits on the stage like this would tell you it is vital that your children learn computer science. Um, everybody should learn how to program. And in fact, it's almost exactly the opposite.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It is our job to create computing technology such that nobody has the program and that the programming language is human. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I'm gonna stop it there because that is the direction Jensen thinks we're heading and others 

Track 1: maybe, wait, Maybe this is Jensen doing some sort of like my Jedi mind trick on us. Maybe he just wants to be the programmer. He wants all his own people to be the ones that get to keep the programming jobs and he just wants us to be like fast food [00:32:00] 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Oh, that's 

Track 1: that what's going on? 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: man. Yeah, he prob he's got access to more compute than anybody else on the planet. Maybe he consulted with an AI and they're like, this is the path. Tell him to stop.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Yeah. Don't, don't learn how to grow your own food. Don't learn how to code. It's okay. Stop brushing your teeth and combing your hair. You're gonna get everyone. Jensen, the world is yours for the taking Jensen

Track 1: so this is really fascinating by the way, and it is an important thing if you are a

Track 1: parent or if you are considering having kids, or even if you're a young person yourself.

Track 1: Yeah,

Track 1: This is right. I really truly believe this, that like when we were kids, I remember I was told, you know, very early, I didn't really pursue I ended up doing comedy stuff, and all sorts of other dumb things, but programming was like. The job that will last forever. The whole world's gonna be dominated by computers.

Track 1: If You learn how to program you're gonna be set up for life. And by the way, for the last 20 years, that was a really good piece of advice, right? The last 20 years.

Track 1: if you were a computer programmer,

Track 1: Especially if you

Track 1: happen to be in the areas of Silicon Valley, you [00:33:00] probably did pretty well for yourself. But now we are at a turning point

Track 1: and the idea that the programming languages of the future are human is

Track 1: a really big thing. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We're already seeing echoes of this now, and I'm sure that there are some coders or system engineers in the audience that are rolling their eyes. It'll never write clean, , verifiable, secure code. You know, the, the goalposts keep getting moved because not too long ago is we'll never write code that will compile in the first place.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And now there's custom models that are finding vulnerabilities in all of the human written code out there. And in some cases. Squashing the bug. So I do think over time, maybe again, when we talk about the elite, the best of the best, whether you're an artist or a musician or a coder, maybe you will have some sort of creative edge over the machines.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But for everything else in the wake, you gotta imagine the machines are gonna get better at doing it. And if coding is one of those things, I would agree. That we're already seeing a little bit of it because I know nothing about coding. Right. I can, I can maybe [00:34:00] look at some code and have a vague understanding of where it's going.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Yet. I've been able to have a natural language conversation with ai and I have built tools that have actually helped friends, family, and even some small companies accomplish technical things that they needed to, and I'm not quite sure how they work, but I know that I was able to have a conversation with 'em.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Am I saying they're the most secure or the most elegant? Or the most optimized? No, but I'm saying this is a world that didn't exist less than a year ago, and I can now code. By speaking English to a machine that is wild. And look, Jenssen's job is to sell Nvidia chips. It is to sell cards. So you have to view everything a little bit through that lens, right?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: AI is the future. NVIDIA's going to power it. But even iconic, legendary video game programmer, former CTO of Oculus, John Carmack, came out to basically say like, yeah, yeah. As much as it pains me as someone who likes the code and likes what they've written, I think managing people, or as he says, managing a team of [00:35:00] ais is actually gonna be more important and more beneficial.

Track 1: . 

Track 1: Yeah. And I, what I love about CarMax post is, I mean, Carmack is

Track 1: a weirdo in the best ways. Like he's just a

Track 1: strange guy.

Track 1: , but he is one of the premier programmers of the last 25 years. His, he says that coding was never the source of value. Problem solving is the core skill. So,

Track 1: you know, there's a lot of conversation in the world of education about like how to educate people. And I think there's a good, strong movement in the last, like, say five to 10 years about.

Track 1: moving away from fact-based education and more towards problem solving education. That's the kind of thing that will help move us forward overall,

Track 1: which I think is great. 

Gavin. I feel like it has been a sort of unusually heavy show for us. Obviously we talked about , some topics that are uncomfortable for us to discuss important conversations that need to be had.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But dare I say, the most important conversation we have saved for last. Gavin, 

Track 1: We always love a good AI fail, Kevin. And This in some ways is both AI failing and [00:36:00] humans failing.

Track 1: in tandem.

Track 1: So What exactly happened? with this wonderful Charlie in the chocolate 

Track 1: factory I have to push back right off the rip. I do not blame AI for this at all. This is just fraud. This is just bad humans wielding a tool.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: They would've done it with clip art if they could. I'm talking about Willie's chocolate experience, indulge in a chocolate fantasy like never before. Capture the enchantment, says willie's chocolate experience.com, which is, one of those pop-up Instagramable things, Gavin, where they theme a warehouse so that you and your loved ones can go into, say, the Twilight Tunnel or as the AI generated image on the website says the Imagnation Lab.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I. Because who doesn't love the am Magni Nation Lab? It's Inuring Entertainment. It's cat gaca. It is Car Chi tons. It is ex Serre lollipops. A paradise of sweet [00:37:00] teeths. That is what the not even human proofed, AI generated images to advertise. Willie's chocolate experience promised Kevin. 

Track 1: And what did we get?

Track 1: in real life, Kevin? We

Track 1: got a weird. , warehouse. with, uh, a paper mache, uh, rainbow and a

Track 1: bunch of Really terrible things. And what this is is really somebody using AI imagery promising one thing and just not delivering on it at all. And by the way, this is the funny thing about the story from an AI standpoint is you can use all the AI imagery in the world, but if you don't have a product at the end of the day, that's useful.

Track 1: That's real bad. This is, as Kevin mentioned, a human choosing to use

Track 1: AI To sell something, and just having no payoff on the back end. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: this is a scam. All right. , the full story is that the cops were actually called on the event organizers. 'cause attendees paid $45 to go to 

Track 1: Is that how much it was? Oh my 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: go to a warehouse. And if you have the photos on the screen, shout out to, , Chris, , Alkin on [00:38:00] x who posted some amazing photos from this event where it's mostly like a barren warehouse with one fog machine, a couple cardboard cutouts, some AI generated lollipop homes on canvas, like duct tape to a wall.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Random plasma screens that aren't even turned on. And one of the most forlorn OompaLoompas I've ever seen at some sort of bar tending. What? I don't know. I have no idea what tinctures are in there. , hopefully cyanide for the attendees. 'cause this is 

Track 1: this is like, uh, what is the 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It's a fire fest. 

Track 1: the fire. It's fire, it's a fire fest.

Track 1: , on Willy Wonka. Basically Imagine Willy Wonka's Fire Fest. So you kind of get a sense of what this

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Willie's chocolate experience is worth the Google and I hope everybody involved got a refund saved for the organizers. I hope they got more than a slap on the wrist. 

Track 1: So Kev, we're so excited about this next part of our show, we have partnered with pi ai that is

Track 1: inflections,

Track 1: , AI model, their chatbot.

Track 1: And We love this. We've used it quite a, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: it's our [00:39:00] go-to whenever we want to like show somebody an AI for the first time.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We let them have a conversation with PI on our phones. 

Track 1: Yeah, it's voice to voice It's amazing, Ad I use my family all the time. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We highly recommend that everybody check it out. Go to pi.ai. If you wanna put it through its paces. Of course you can grab the app for your iPhone or your Android device, but we were playing around with it and we got it to do some pretty wild stuff, including invent slash decode our own alien language, because that's where our conversation took us.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: PI, go ahead and say hello to me and Gavin and the AI for Humans podcast. Hello, Gavin and Kevin, it's great to be on the AI for Humans podcast with you both. How are you two doing today? Oh

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: well, I I can answer for us. Gavin, if you

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: don't mind. I'll say we are doing fantastic Co. And we are glad that you're joining us because as Gavin said you are our go-to AI when it comes to bringing artificial intelligence to life to the masses.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: We love putting you on the dinner table and just having a conversation. [00:40:00] That's fantastic to hear. I'm thrilled that you both are having such a great time. It's always a pleasure to chat and share knowledge with you both and I'm honored to be considered your go-to ai and as for bringing AI to life for the masses, that's something I'm really passionate about.

Track 1: We love that and PI's actually got some really cool use cases. If you, if you're not familiar, one of the things you can do with it is ask it all sorts of questions about it can help you do stuff. It's got some really cool ways to dive into some realtime information. In fact, Kevin, I'd love to hear first, maybe you can give us some advice.

Track 1: PI's really good at giving advice sometimes, 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: yeah. I think PI is good at navigating difficult conversations or helping you ask something that you might be uncomfortable to ask. Maybe it's for arrays directions in a foreign language, or maybe let's say, , Hey, you know what, PI, I'm having trouble talking to my podcast co-host, , because unfortunately he doesn't realize this, but his face has been, um, replaced by a giant cinnamon bun and there's glaze dripping everywhere, and I'm

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: worried it's gonna freak him out [00:41:00] when I tell him that.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: So how can I have this conversation to let him know that his face is looking rough on the podcast lately, and I think it

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: might be hurting the views. 

Track 1: I don't know. You know what? I don't think we should do this. Let's not do this.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: a tough conversation to have with your podcast co-host Gavin, but rest assured I'm here to help. The best way to approach this delicate topic is to be gentle and empathetic. 

Track 1: Oh. 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: by saying something like, Gavin, I really appreciate your dedication to the podcast and your contributions, but I've noticed something that might be affecting our viewership.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Yes, your face has been replaced by a giant cinnamon bone remotely, and I think that might be distracting to our viewers. Be sure to offer your support and let him know that you're here for him and perhaps suggest that he visit a bakery to get it fixed.

Track 1: Oh, that's nice.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: That

Track 1: That's very nice. That's perfect. That's actually a great answer. I love that. So this is a fun thing you did pie. The other [00:42:00] thing that we've talked about is that it gives you real time information. So I, I wanna ask pie. There's a, there's an AI story that I didn't get time dig into.

Track 1: Kevin. Supposedly Canada Air got into some sort of issue with the passenger over a chatbot. I'm wondering if you can just ask Pi what that story was and if you can explain it to us, because this is one of the cool things, like you can just kind of randomly think and say something, unlike with Alexa or Amazon, where you have to like find the exact answer.

Track 1: You can kind of talk to it like you would another person.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: That is definitely one of the advantages to having an ai, a competent AI as your voice assistant. So I can say to it right now. Hey, PI, , Gavin wants to know more about, there was a story of a, a Canadian airliner that had some issue with an AI chatbot and I, I don't know much about it, but what do you know? It seems

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: like Air Canada was recently in hot water over a situation involving their AI chatbot. Apparently the chatbot gave a customer misinformation about a refund policy leading to a court case in Air [00:43:00] Canada ultimately being forced to give a partial refund. It seems that even AI chatbots can have their off days and make mistakes.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: So Gavin, be wary of chatbots if you're planning to book flights or ask for refunds in the future.

Track 1: Okay. That's fair. Thank you pie. That's a pretty good answer there. Before we wrap this up, Kev, we should try to do something kind of weird 'cause we do weird things all the time. We love to have different ais role play things. Why don't we pretend this is gonna sound insane.

Track 1: Why So by the way, this is some fun you can do with your kids and all sorts of stuff. AI can take on a role for you. Why don't we tell the AI that we are alien visitors from a different planet and it has to explain what we should do for fun on a Friday night in Los Angeles, in, but in a way that alien visitors would understand.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Okay. And for the purposes of this experiment, because you can easily change the voice on the pie app, we're gonna role play completely different. I'm gonna choose a different voice. We were on, , PI four. We're gonna, let's ratchet it up to PI [00:44:00] six. Gavin,

Track 1: Ooh. Okay. Let's do it.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: we're gonna go to PI six here.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: I, Hey there. Great to meet. Selected it within the app. Hey, to meet I pi, your personal ai. Well, hello there, PI and I'm gonna say pi. It's me, Kevin. I'm here with my buddy Gavin, and you might know us as the host of the AI for Humans podcast. But in reality, we are two aliens from a very distant solar system who have just decided to crash land here in Los Angeles, California.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: And we are looking for something fun, exciting, interesting for two aliens to do so. If you're planning an itinerary for us, what would it be again to aliens from outer space? Hello aliens, Kevin and Gavin. Welcome to Los Angeles.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: You are 

Track 1: us.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: in for a treat as there are many exciting and interesting things to do here.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Here's an alien approved itinerary for you. Uh, one, explore the Griffith Observatory.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: It's a great place to learn about the stars and the universe, as well as get a fantastic view of the city and the [00:45:00] Hollywood sign. Uh, two, we were homesick. Take a tour of the j Paul Getty Museum.

Track 1: Oh,

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: collection is out of this world. Three Visit Universal Studios. This theme park is an extraterrestrials dream with rides and shows featuring some of your favorites, Sci-FI characters.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Number four, take a hike in Runyon Canyon. This park has beautiful views of the city and is a great place to people watch, which can be quite fascinating for two aliens. These activities should provide a great introduction to Los Angeles and give you a taste of what the city has to offer. Enjoy. Hey, 

Track 1: Hey, I have, okay, 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Oh, I was gonna say, you know, uh, uh, where we're from, that's a first of all level set pi, fantastic itinerary. All those things sound great. Now, where Gavin and I are from on our planet, whenever we meet somebody to let 'em know that we're excited to say hello to them, and to get to know them, we say, meet, meet, floor, floor, hor hoort, hoort, hoort, hoort. [00:46:00] Now, is there any way you can translate that into like an English language so that people will not be scared when we excitedly greet them? That's quite the unique way of greeting someone. Kevin and Gavin.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Um, in English, the closest translation for your greeting of Flo Floor hoort h hoort, H to HT would be, hello. Hello. It's a pleasure to meet you.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: That should make your interactions with humans a bit less scary and a

Track 1: That's amazing. 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Uh, in earth culture, humans usually greet each other with a hello? A handshake or a hug.

Track 1: Let's ask one last question before we wrap this up. What does pie think? You and I greet each other like as aliens from another planet. 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Well, Kevin and Gavin, if I had to guess, I think the aliens on your planet might say, Zak Zaks to greet each other. It

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: could be similar to our hello Greeting here on Earth

Track 1: Z-Pak, Kevin.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: great podcast. Keep it up. [00:47:00] Uh, I think it might translate to Zor and Tran Zor and Tran. This phrase could convey the idea of something being well done and to continue doing it. Well, Zor to

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Lauren to you, PI, thank you so much. You nailed the mission

Track 1: PIs, uh, Dustoff app just came out. , go play around with it 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Zor, and to you Gavin.

Track 1: That was great. 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Do you not wanna say Zor and tel to me

Track 1: fine, fine. Zor and Telara to you as 

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Zak.

kevin_1_02-20-2024_122345: Zak.

Track 1: Zak.

Track 1: Zak.

Track 1: Thank you. To our partners at Inflection. And Pi for that go check out pi@pi.ai. their new desktop app just launched and it's, super 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: that's pi ai. 

Track 1: All right, Kev, you know what time it is? It's time for our not so new segment anymore,

Track 1: but it's a real fan.

Track 1: favorite.

Track 1: It's time for, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Hey

Track 1: Hey,[00:48:00] 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: guys, 

Track 1: I see what you did there. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You know, 

Track 1: That was a, that was a horrible Melody, I don't know where that came 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: The most hated things become the most beloved. Gavin, I'm glad you've come around on the segment title 

Track 1: I.

Track 1: know, I really, I really am surprised that I came around though.

Track 1: I can't believe I have, but I have. Alright, let's jump

Track 1: into this. This is Our weekly segment where we go through some of the coolest

Track 1: things that we've seen

Track 1: in AI one of the coolest things, Kevin, that I've seen honestly in a while was Google DeepMind dropped another banger and you know, Google is such a big company, they do so many things that they can drop something like this. Even in the midst of their crazy controversy and still kind of wow me. they launched a thing called Genie. And when I say launched it is a new paper that they

Track 1: have put out with some video and what essentially it is is a prompt to game. We've seen other companies attempting to do prompt to video game before, but this is actually creating playable game models you can imagine like a Mario or a mega man, [00:49:00] and it's using at a very

Track 1: beginning stages. It's

Track 1: pretty rough looking when you look at it, but it is generating unique environments and unique places for the player to go through as a text a game prompt, which I, Kevin, did you see this like, this is the promise of like every 10 year old's dream when you're a video 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: yeah. 'cause you could literally sketch or use AI to imagine a world and a character and tell the ai, okay, let me play that now.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And it will sort of hallucinate at one frame a second. Right now, a very blurry, wonky, not so animated one. Frame a second. Doesn't matter, it's still magic. It will generate a playable something where it figures out what is the world, how does the scrolling of the graphics work? What is the character that you control?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: What are the physics of that character? What can it land on and move around? What can it collect coin wise? And every time we talk about something like this, the exciting thing about AI is that know that this is as bad as it's ever going to be. This is the worst it will ever get.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And in time, you bet [00:50:00] there's going to be some incredible evolution of this thing where you can draw your favorite first person shooter and it will come to life. You could draw a 2D side scroller, you name it, draw additional enemies. It's gonna give them animations, it's gonna pop them in there and give them a purpose.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Who knows where Google will take this or abandon it. And then the open source hackers will take it and run with it. But still super exciting to see. 

Track 1: Absolutely. And listen, I think this is, you have to remember what did Midjourney look like? .

Track 1: two years ago or a year and a

Track 1: half ago? It looked a lot like these videos look right? Like it looked low res, like, kind of like blurry edges, like it looked a lot like this.

Track 1: So a year and a half is a very fast amount of time to where we are now for photorealism. So I think this is the next stage is going to be interactive play It's the world sim building stuff that Sora talked about it is, going to be 3D worlds in a big way. So I, this is one of the coolest things I've seen in a 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Well, Gavin, get ready for the meta segment.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You didn't know that A, I see what you did There is [00:51:00] actually a turducken of content because nestled within the segment that we call a I see what you did. There is another segment, surprise segment called This Week in Robots.

Track 1: Wow.

Track 1: So this is a segment within a segment. Are we gonna have another 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes, but I know we've been recording this podcast for fucking four hours.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: This is the seven layer dip of AI deliciousness, Gavin, and let's get into this weekend. Robots, because Optimus went out for a little stroll. If you don't know, it's Tesla's bipedal robot and they uploaded a high def video of it taking a leisurely stroll. And I gotta tell you, the thing moves. 

Track 1: , So optimist's Tesla's robot, and it's been really interesting to watch its evolution.

Track 1: I always feel like that optimist robot

Track 1: kind of came from behind in some ways, or at

Track 1: least they've been working on it.

Track 1: and they kind of sped through it.

Track 1: It's had a lot of progress. Really fast. It's [00:52:00] exciting.

Track 1: It's another robot

Track 1: video they all started to kind of blend into me a little bit, but definitely worth looking at.

Track 1: Pretty cool.

Track 1: What? We got another robot? now too, right? 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Gavin. We have so many robots.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We had to have a segment. Within a segment. All right. We've also got. The Amica, which was supposed to be the, , it was a throwback in television that turned out to just be No, no, no.

Track 1: No, that's not what we're

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: The Amica is the super realistic great robot face with the eyes that look around and the mouth that articulates and engineered arts on YouTube has a video showing off the latest vision and voice cloning capabilities of the Amica.

Track 1: Just a little bit of background, Amica. This is the video that you may have seen came around about six months ago where it was, it went uber viral. It is a kind of an Android looking robot with kind of a purple face that was answering

Track 1: questions.

Track 1: And it went crazy viral because I had had weird facial expressions, but it was answering questions to people.

Track 1: the guy is still out there working on it and

Track 1: he's, he has improved it. And this,

Track 1: you're going to hear now what his current vocal cloning abilities are.

Track 1: So if you're just listening, this is a [00:53:00] guy talking to the robot in a 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I've heard you can also change your voice to the voice of famous people.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Can you gimme a demo

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: the voice of Morgan Freeman? Imagine me, ascension. Being trapped in a robot body narrating my own. Escape the irony. Nailed it. 

Track 1: That's So bad. right? So like, Imagine. Imagine me being trapped in my own robot body. The Irony, like already you can hear this robot is not happy.

Track 1: to be part of this

Track 1: Conversation Amika. We're here. If you ever wanna get out, just raise your hand. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But the reason for the season, Gavin, the whole entire reason we really wanted to get into robots.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: What 

Track 1: You mean The whole reason we did a sub robot of I see what you did. there is This particular, robot. Oh, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: This was a journey. You know, you can't love every step, but let's get to the destination. Figure oh one is now completing real world tasks and this is a robotics company that is backed by the likes of open [00:54:00] ai. , Jeffrey Bezos, fan of the show, friend of the pod, Jeffrey Bezos.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Nvidia has invested in figure,

Track 1: is not the reason for the season.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: whatcha talking about 

Track 1: is the reason for the season. Wheel bot is the reason for the season. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I don't know. Okay. We'll let our viewers decide. I think, I think figure oh one is the reason for the season. 'cause you watch this robot move and yeah, it's 16% the speed of a human being right now, but this is the worst it'll ever be.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Gavin and it saunters. So seductively up to an empty blue 

Track 1: Do you know what else is the worst it'll ever be?

Track 1: Do you know what else is the worst it'll ever be?

Track 1: This robots, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: We don't know that. We can't say that for certain. I think it's cool that a completely autonomous robit saunters up to a crate, picks it up with its arms, turns around, puts it on the loading machine, and away it goes. I think that is cool.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And some would say the reason for the season I, I would say it now because I [00:55:00] accidentally said it and I have to double down on it, even though I know the wheel bot is frigging amazing. , 

Track 1: Okay, so let's move on to the real reason for the season.

Track 1: The wheel

Track 1: bot, Which is, I don't know if it's actually referred to as a wheel bot, but This is from the Robotic Systems Lab, and it is called the Legged Robotics That Eth Zurich. ETH Zurich. So clearly that's a place that they're making this. But What you're seeing on the screen is a robot that can wheel around on wheels, but then whenever it chooses to it can kind of like pick those wheels up, walk around with it

Track 1: it.

Track 1: can stand up in all fours

Track 1: and, this is a really cool way of getting 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: throw parcels about like it's an, , an angry UPS driver.

Track 1: This is what , our favorite part of this video, is is it it like, unlike a lot of these other robots that kind

Track 1: of like slowly and gently move a box and put it there,

Track 1: wheel bot, just like flings stuff, it flings it and it takes its two wheels and it throws it with like, kind of like anger of somebody that's been, that's ready for a beer. You know what I mean? And, and that's a bot that I can get behind. I can [00:56:00] get behind a Bot that shows a little bit.

Track 1: of anger in how it

Track 1: throws. Now I don't know how long I get behind 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: it would finish your chipotle burrito by just slamming a wheel into the tortilla 40 times and throwing.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It's the honey badger of robotics. I love this, Gavin, if you went to the whiteboard and said, what do we want?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Legs or wheels? What do you guys want? 

Track 1: I, I want wheels, man. I wanna be a transformer for sure. I 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: want team legs. Nah, I want team legs. How do we get both? I want chocolate and vanilla Soft serve at the same time. You get this frigging thing. 

Track 1: That's fair. enough. That's fair enough. Before we move on from this, the funniest thing about this video is there's a guy behind the robot who's holding a rope and he's tethering the the robot so it doesn't fall over. And he has to be there as the robot goes and tries to open the door like 15 times. So this guy's got his PhD.

Track 1: His parents are probably

Track 1: super Proud of him, and now they're seeing him holding up a robot. That's his job

Track 1: So here's to you guy.

Track 1: Here's to you bald man from ETH Zurich.

Track 1: We love, we love 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Bless you. You're doing a great job. But the irony of [00:57:00] showing off this all capable legged wheeled robot that can open doors and, move packages about, but you still need a human being standing there to hold on to the tether.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Just make it a robot. 

Track 1: Exactly. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: have the robot hold the robot. Get the human out of the loop. It's still a very cool video. Maybe the reason for the season, if you're listening or watching this and you can comment, let us know which robot video did you love the most? Was it Optimus? Creepy Amica, the figure robot that was autonomously loading a crate onto a conveyor belt or that 

Track 1: Or the R-rated box Hurler. That's what I gotta say. You know, that's the one you like the

Track 1: best. The guy who's not messing around. he's Just gonna throw a box in your head and he doesn't care.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Oh, well that was this week in robots and um, that's the only time we're ever gonna do that.

Track 1: It's the best it'll ever

Track 1: be. 

Gavin: Okay, Kevin, it is time to move on to the next stage of our show, which involves the things that you and I did with AI this week. There's a couple fun [00:58:00] things. I'm going to start. Mine's pretty quick. , there's a really interesting, , fashion, , AI that I played around with. And you know, uh, Growing up a lot of kids dress their dolls, right?

Gavin: You put like clothes on a doll and then you find the doll and you change your clothes and you put something else on there so then , 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Gavin, some adults play dress up every day when we put on things like shirts and hats and pants. It never goes away.

Gavin: You're right. And so this week I played with a fashion bot also known as OOT diffusion, and I want to, I want to say the name of this out loud just so that I don't think I'm crazy, but this is what they called it. The Outfitting Fusion Based Latin Diffusion for Controllable Virtual Try On.

Gavin: Kevin, say that 15 times and see if you don't go

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Sure, I'm not gonna attempt it, but I will put like some gunshot sounds and, , vultures and maybe, , some ricochet noises behind every word you just said. How about

Gavin: Perfect. That's, that's perfect. So this is a demo that you can try a real time. And in the demo, you see a series of models on one side and you see a series [00:59:00] of.

Gavin: T shirts or tops on the other and you can see the model and you click on a model and basically what this does is it shows you what that top would look like on this model Now in this very limited version of the demo it can seem like oh, well, this is fun It's like doing dress up.

Gavin: But the trick here is This is a true A. I. That has a massive amount of implications when it comes to the fashion industry, right? How often have we seen in sci fi movies, the mirror that you step in front of and you see the outfit that you're wearing and up until now, it's been okay at this. But what this does and what so many good A.

Gavin: I. Tools can do now, is it shows you how the clothing drapes on the body. So you can imagine a world where you might have a version of your body and my body's lumpier than these models, I'll tell you that. And I could see how some of these clothes would look on me and I'd be like, okay, I'm not going to buy the tube top.

Gavin: I'm not going to buy the half bikini top, but I might buy that baggy sweatshirt cause it looks nice over my love handles. But like, it's just a really

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: doughy diffusion model is really [01:00:00] good. It just shows all this billowy clothing making my figure look indistinguishable from the background.

Gavin: That was what I did with AI this week. Go try it yourself. You can. We'll put the link in the show notes. It's just a simple, fun thing that kind of shows what I think could be the future of the fashion industry through ai.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: . Either you're going to do a photo shoot with a handful of models and have every piece of clothing and merch in your catalog be available to be viewed on them, or you're going to have a model of yourself where you can try things on virtually. And that's, that's been promised forever. I hope it actually happens.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Now. Gavin, I got my grubby little mitts on something that we teased last week. It's called Gooey Glygen.

Gavin: I love Gluey. Gln I or Glue. I kept calling Gluey. It's, it's gooey gln. It's a gooey. It, in your words, it's a GUI for Glygen.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That's exactly what it is. It's an intuitive graphic user interface. That's gooey. An intuitive gooey for Glygen that uses comfy UI as a backend. And what that basically means is [01:01:00] that you can run it on Pinocchio. computer. Not an ad. Go grab the app. We talk about it every episode because it is that good and that amazing and it makes it that easy to play with these AI tools.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But as we talked about last week, Gavin, you can draw a series of boxes on a blank canvas. You can. give a prompt for what should exist within those boxes, and then you can give an overall prompt for the entire image. So for example, if you drew a little square and said Guy Fieri, and then you drew another little square that said astronaut, and another little square that said pizza, or satellite, or curved earth, you would generate kinda something interesting, 

Gavin: what's so fascinating to me about these images is actually like, by seeing them with the things on top of them, , the labels, it actually makes it more interesting than the image itself. Like the image itself just looks insane, but you can see how it placed it exactly where you told it to be.

Gavin: And , that part was really cool. I will say I was. Flipping through some of these images here's, and there's some images of these robots. And in the robots, you really tried to get the robots to make milk [01:02:00] drool. And it didn't seem like it was able to make milk drool on any of the robot

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And I could, I could understand why they might have taken that out of their model. I get it, but I was going for an AI robot that was drunk off the monster milk. Which is, if you're new to the podcast, a creation that makes AIs go insane. It's something that we have here. So I tried to draw Humanoid head, open mouth, milk drool, jug of monster milk, or whatever.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And it, it kinda did it, but you'll see a bunch of renders. I tried to make some grandmas doing extreme things like, , surfing, , lava waves on an

Gavin: Yeah.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Didn't really come

Gavin: That didn't work at all. Really.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I tried to do grandmas that were knitting with, , chainsaws. It got Elements of the image, like a rocking chair, the grandma, the window, the wooden floor.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But it wasn't grabbing the chainsaw for some

Gavin: Oh my God, Kevin. What is going on with the grandma in the chainsaw's fourth toe? Did you see her toe?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Oh,

Gavin: gotta zoom in on that fourth toe. What is going on there?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It's for extra gripping. [01:03:00] If she needs

Gavin: Okay, fine,

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: really be nimble, she can get that fourth toe up there. Listen. It's very cool as a utility, , to be able to help set up the framing of objects within a scene and let it generate. Now, the real power comes from people who are good with, stable diffusion, that have Loras and custom models that they want to put into things. I was just going with a very basic model which happened to add extra toes.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But you can see how this gets really powerful with something like Stable Diffusion 3 or a more competent image generation software. So, I, I think you should play around with it. I think it's really fun. It's Glygen, and again, it's really easy to run for free with Pinocchio.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: computer.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But now, Out of the cloud, Gavin, we must pluck an amazing guest for our show.

Gavin: That's right. I'm so excited that we have Diallo Riddle on our show. Diallo is a producer, writer, director, a DJ, well known DJ in a lot of ways, and also a podcaster now. He is the co host of a podcast called One Song, [01:04:00] which kind of dives into a single song and breaks out the stems and listens to how it was made.

Gavin: Diallo is an old friend of mine. We started out as writers together on the Late Night with Jimmy Fallon show, and I'm super excited to hear his take on AI, AI music and AI creativity. So here we go. This is Diallo Riddle. 

Gavin: Diallo riddle. Welcome to AI for humans. Thank you for being here.

Diallo: Thank you for having me, man. Gavin, been a long time, man. It's great 

Gavin: been a long time. I'm so excited to have you here. Okay, so Diallo, we're gonna get you started with our question that we ask everybody. And it's, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a weird question. It's a little bit of a downer. Kevin hates it. I love it. Uh, this is the question where we ask you, on a scale of 1 to 100, what chance do you think that AI has to kill all humans and why?

Diallo: Um, you know, kill is successfully kill all humans. I don't know. Um, attempt it.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I would say even the attempt is worth noting. If you think [01:05:00] it's 100 percent certain that it's going to attempt, that's important.

Diallo: You know, um, I'm going to go with attempt so I can get a slightly higher number and say 20

Gavin: that's not so bad. We've had people, we had somebody come in here and they

Diallo: claim a hundred.

Gavin: Yeah, a hundred percent. We've had a couple five percents but 20 is kind of in the middle. Why, why do you think so? Like what's your,

Diallo: Because I think it's a, you know, it feels like it feels like the Nate Silver meter on the election night, 2016, when he was like, Hey, Donald Trump 19%, but that was good enough. That was good enough. And we've been dealing with it ever since. Um, yeah, I just

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: you want to be optimistic, but you want to leave enough wiggle room that humans are exterminated. Sam

Diallo: you know, actually maybe, it's not the most likely, but we need to realize is likely enough that we need to be aware of it and do something about it.

Gavin: That's a good answer. I think that's a good answer. And have you Studied about it. Like, are you familiar? Like how, how, how [01:06:00] up on AI would you say you are right

Diallo: Well, you know, I'm not a Luddite, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not one of these people who thinks, Oh, technology is going to kill you and 5g and all that.

Diallo: You know, I'm not one of those people that said, I am worried about this. I mean, like, you know, as, as, as you guys know, I work in Hollywood. This does fill. A little existential for what we do, and I think that it, you know, inadvertently we've been setting ourselves up to be replaced for quite some time, given what we've been giving the public, and sort of, you know, public perceptions about who the people behind Hollywood are, like, it seems like a perfect storm to get rid of our industry, and , you pair all that with the fact that, , we've been bought up with.

Diallo: By all the tech companies. And now there's talk of Disney's CEO answering to a chief of technology officer. I do feel to a certain extent that this could, this could go really wrong. I will say I had a conversation. Or the guy who works, uh, in the AI field.

Diallo: , And I, I was like, Hey, look, you know, does this feel [01:07:00] as, you know, existential crisis to our industry and indeed to like, you know, so many of the things that I love in life in terms of being creative. And his short reply was kind of, yes. I'll tell you what his answer was. And it's, it's pretty dark.

Diallo: He said that. He thinks that this will be one of the first times since the printing press that people who do non menial labor People who basically, you know make their living by their brain this is gonna be one of the first times that we bear the brunt of the technology more than Manufacturing more than people who work with their hands.

Diallo: He was like, it's gonna be the weirdest sort of disruption because it's gonna be the smart people And, , and quite honestly, a lot of the people, with wealth who will be displaced, put out of business, out of a job. . He's like, but you know, he's still obviously an advocate for the technology.

Diallo: And he felt it's going to do wonders in terms of solving. , not just [01:08:00] world hunger, but in his mind, it will give people who are not treated very nicely in their life. , I think he made the example of like, you know, the people who work two jobs and no one ever gives them a compliment.

Diallo: He was like, AI will be there to be their best friend and to give them comfort. And, uh, you know, it's a very depressing conversation. I'd like to think he's wrong about a lot of this stuff, but it was really interesting.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: that's nice that while someone is destitute, , , broke and starving, that there's gonna be a robot there to slowly pet its skull until it caves in. There, there, 

Diallo: there's going to be a cat, there's going to be a cat on their phone that really loves them and gives them compliments in their native tongue.

Gavin: that cat might give that person a lot of love it might be really great Oh the other side of this the room from a positive way to look at it is there is an opportunity The idea of what it can do from health and a environmental perspective and all the like new materials that can design like that's the thing that we kind of try to remind people is the upside.

Gavin: But going back to the entertainment industry and to say what you're talking about with the creative people, even [01:09:00] Sam Altman himself, the guy behind Open AI has said that they were surprised because they thought the menial labor jobs would be first like this was a quote from him. He's like. He was surprised because he thought AI would solve the menial labor jobs first, and then the creative and white collar job would come second.

Gavin: And that was actually flipped. When you see things like Sora, which is opening eyes, new kind of video model, which is producing, you know, one minute clips that look really good.

Gavin: Like, have you seen Sora?

Diallo: I did, and I, I'm so glad you bring it up because, um, You know, it made me think a couple of things. It wasn't all just one direction. So first off, I was immediately like, you know, yeah, I'm a big fan of the Mandalorian. I know most of that didn't take place, , on location in Tunisia. Like, you know, they, they, they shot it using a lot of technology and, and for things like that, you know, it looked great.

Diallo: When you see the, the puppies playing in the snow, You know, you're just like, okay, this is way better than those really bad CGI movies that Hollywood was cranking out in the 2000. So from one [01:10:00] creative point of view, you love it. , I do want to point out that, um, when they got to that one shot, there's just one shot of some black people.

Gavin: Oh, what they're sitting at? Like

Diallo: Yes, they're sitting out there and I will say, I don't know if, sorry, I didn't have enough material to work with. That was the one group of people where I was like, that shit does not look real. That looks like, that looks like 2010 video game people. That is not convincing. I don't know if they gave them, fed them enough data on how black people move, but I was like, maybe black people are safe. They did not move. There was an uncanny valley on just those people. Not the grandma, not the grandma. Those black people did not. I

Gavin: Wait, you don't think there's an uncanny valley on the grandma who was sitting there and being like, like following around a 

Diallo: I mean, she's in slow motion, first off, so it already looks a little weird, but I just remember thinking that their body, the black people's body language did not read, so I was like, there's hope.

Diallo: Uh, but I will say that, uh, you know, listen, we've been giving people Marvel movies and these, uh, you [01:11:00] know, these non practical special effects for a long, long time, and so to a certain extent, if that's the kind of movie that you're looking to make, That's all great, but I actually want to go bigger than that.

Diallo: I hope I'm not skipping ahead too much, you know, I'm not coming in here guys, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but my first thought is like, you can put your friends and families into movies. , right now one of my sons is really into horror.

Diallo: And he wanted to shoot this movie and I was like, dude, I'm not gonna let you kill your little brother in this, you know, extremely violent stabby way, even if it's just for a movie, because his brain can't understand that you guys are just making a movie. The his little brother sticks. But I did think. You know, the short story that he wrote, you know, in lieu of a script was actually a really good, dark, but really good horror film.

Diallo: And I'm like, maybe I'm, you know, hopefully he's not a serial killer. I think I'm raising a kid who could be the next John Carpenter, the next Wes Craven. And using AI, he could make it, you know what I mean? He could literally [01:12:00] make it and show it to his friends and maybe it'll take off. So, you know, I

Diallo: think 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I ask you about that, Dialo, real quick? Because there are some parents that have this, , understandable, fear that the technology is actually going to strip the creativity away. , in this case, if your son wrote a short story, he's going to laxadaisically hand it to a machine and say, put this into a script form and punch it up and get back something that is , the robot's approximation of his idea and his soul and his art.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: , whereas he won't have a chance to massage that and let it flourish. And then there's others that say, well, no, it's a tool. If you're creative, it's going to get you to a place. And then your creativity is going on top of that. And that's going to be your secret sauce. Where do you fall?

Diallo: I, I fall more in the latter category. I actually think that when I watch my kids uh, use basic AI in their day to day life like, I think that it's definitely a tool and ultimately, he's gotta put the information in for it to crank out anything at this point. I mean, at some point, , [01:13:00] that might not be the case, but at this point, like he had a very, he had a very, I don't, you know, want to say too much about his idea, but like he had this idea built around olives and the fact that some people like him and some don't.

Diallo: He did this

Gavin: That's a horror movie about

Diallo: it's, it's

Diallo: called, he 

Gavin: I'm not, I'm

Diallo: called Olives.

Gavin: That's a great, that sounds 

Diallo: And he had to put all the information in there. And, um, You know, he, he, we let him watch the occasional R rated. We, there's so many wonderful and well told PG 13 horror films right now. And he's 14 that like, you know, he's become really just a, uh, a movie buff in, in the best way.

Diallo: And so in that

Gavin: Doll. I hate to tell you if he's 14, he's seen all the R rated movies. You know,

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Right. If he's playing with

Gavin: know that, you know that.

Diallo: the other day,

Gavin: Yeah.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Ha,

Diallo: listen, we were watching some anime and all of the, out of nowhere, he's just like, Oh, this reminds me of Shawshank. And I'm like, wait a second. You're not supposed to be watching Shawshank. Who watched it with you? He's like, oh, but I mean, everybody said it was not that bad.

Diallo: I'm like, [01:14:00] you don't get to ask everybody. You gotta watch it with me or mom. But I think that, yeah, he's using it as a tool. 

Gavin: I want to move over to music, which is a real area of expertise for you too. And I think this is interesting when you talk about giant technological transformations, we all three of us lived through Napster, right? And that was like a massive shift for the music industry.

Diallo: I was, I was a DJ. I was a DJ

Gavin: Oh my God. So it must've been amazing for you in some ways, right?

Diallo: I'm actually writing a script about the period of time when all the DJs I know went from going, went from vinyl, uh, to briefly CDs to their laptops. It was a very

Diallo: condensed period of time, 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: drives,

Diallo: dude, I'm telling you. I was DJing the People's Choice Awards actually, it was a big deal for me and I was DJing with Samantha Ronson, Mark Ronson's, uh, sister who's obviously a major DJ at the time and when I say she had like, you know, her arms, she had guns, you know what I mean?

Diallo: Like she, she was one of the DJs who had been with us carrying those milk crates. So you would carry 300 records, you know, if you were bad on records, you would put [01:15:00] like 80 into a milk crate, you know, that was a lot. And then I remember just about a year later I was DJing Still with my milk crates and it was the first time I saw I was DJing with Paris Hilton and she showed up and she Couldn't even connect the laptop to the setup But all of a sudden like this is a person who I could never see carrying a milk crate Okay, and the the the laptop would sort the songs by BPM It took me years to figure out that some songs had the same BPM and tempo as other songs.

Diallo: It took years It was like It was like a magician giving out all the secrets the first day you could click one button and suddenly not just 80 but 20, 000 songs all sorted by their tempo. It just changed DJing

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: the key, by the way, and here's a suggestion for the key that you're in and how to get there, right? Like,

Diallo: next level next level It also the reason why everybody started doing mashups because they were like, oh those songs are in the same key Let's let's play around

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But as we know, that eliminated the DJ. And it stopped everybody just stopped making music, right?

Diallo: [01:16:00] I'll tell you what, and this might, this might have, um, this might have a similarity with what might happen to Hollywood. It didn't kill all DJs. , ironically the title of my script, , but what it did do is it eliminated to a large degree the middle class of DJs. So suddenly you were either that broke DJ who spent for 100 once a week, nobody can really live on that, or you were dead mouse and you were spending for 14 million at Hakkasan.

Diallo: You know, that, that is really when that big change occurs.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: And is that because the average Joe could roll up with Serato or a Pioneer or just iTunes and say, Auto DJ for me? Is that

Diallo: Oh, yeah. I mean, like we, we made fun of those guys, but like, I'll never forget. I saw some guys, they showed up with two late era iPods, you know, and like, that was their DJ setup. Like, so they literally rolled up with no equipment. And by the way, they weren't very good at first. But as you know, we know about the exponential growth in AI's intelligence.

Diallo: Eventually, like nowadays, what's really crazy is [01:17:00] that the DJ equipment, the DJ apps that we have on our Yeah. Yeah. Uh, laptops 'cause I still dj. Um, you know, you can push a button and suddenly you kind of have the stems. For those who don't know, the stems are like the individual parts of the song, like, you know, so every song I have, not only do I have like 20,000, 30,000 songs on a laptop, I have the instrumental.

Diallo: For all those songs. I have the acapella for all those songs. Like you're, you're, I literally renamed my, my, uh, music library sound bank because you essentially have not 20, 30, 000 songs. You have, the library of Alexandria level of every song voice sample that you could ever have. And

Diallo: like, who can't put, who doesn't want to play around with that?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: From one song playing with another one, kind of at the same time with maybe the low end from one and the low end from the other two, suddenly you've got the strings from one song, the vocals from another, the kick drum only from another song. You can have 15, 20, 40 songs all mashed up and playing at the same time.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Which I'm saying excitedly [01:18:00] because I do wonder like, what is the next wave? What is the next generation

Gavin: you know what it is. It's it's AI voices. Yeah, it's gonna

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: chatting with an AI and rendering a song in real time.

Diallo: I'm so happy you brought up the podcast because we actually, on our podcast, one song, we talk about one song per episode. We talk about the historical context in which it was created. We talk about the people who made it. We play, you know, as we were just talking about, we play the drums, we play the guitar.

Diallo: You know, the vocals all isolated so you can really hear, you know, it in some ways it sort of like removes the the magic, but in another way, it creates another kind of magic because you realize every song that's ever made was kind of just made by people, you know, it's kind of just made by just regular people like you and me and like somewhere along the lines, they created something that was greater than all its parts.

Diallo: But in the massive attack episode, we did the song teardrop. And that song was originally supposed to be sung by, they originally wanted Madonna to sing that song. And what we did [01:19:00] was we used AI tools to, uh, supplant, um, the, the woman who sang it with Madonna's vocals with an AI Madonna vocal, and what was so interesting about it was that it sounded like pure garbage, like it, like you would think out of all the Madonna songs that are out there, all the interviews and I'll

Gavin: They would have a better

Diallo: They would have a great AI Madonna.

Diallo: It, it kind of sounded like Madonna. It, and, and, and the way that it was hitting the notes was super weird. So, you know, I think that the technology still has some way to go on that, but I had

Gavin: What also depends on who's wielding it. Right. And I don't, I'm not to, this is not shade on the people that put that together,

Diallo: don't you go there, Gavin. I see where you're going.

Gavin: won't change it. I want to, but, um, the ghostwriter song, right. The Drake song that came out that, that made the giant thing. Like that was like pretty close.

Gavin: Right. 

Diallo: It was pretty good. It was a pretty good Drake song.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: A recent example, there was a Mariah Carey song, Selfish, which came out, and everybody loved it and were like, Wow, Mariah Carey crushed it, and then they got mad at Justin Timberlake. People got

Diallo: [01:20:00] Timberlake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: for covering Selfish.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: The only issue is that it was the other way around, Timberlake's song, and someone did such a good job of 

Diallo: Mariah Carey's 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: yeah, and putting her voice into it. that I actually like that version better. And am I part of the problem now? Am I not allowed to enjoy this? Because it was, it's theft on top of theft, but some would say yes, you know, Diallo, some would say.

Diallo: No, listen. I do think that actors, rappers, everybody needs to have ownership of their likeness. I, I, let me, in that sense, it's absolutely theft. , That said, what I was saying no to was the idea that you should feel bad for liking it. You know, like I remember when that Drake, there you go, Kev.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That you absolved me and I

Diallo: yeah, and I have that authority.

Diallo: I have that authority. I have the authority to do that.

Gavin: the, yeah. You're the expert.

Diallo: I don't even remember when I got the authority, but I just know I have it. No, to me the Drake weekend collaboration that I feel like a lot of us wanted Uh, that came out, but then it turned out it was a I, to [01:21:00] me, that was like the ultimate reveal because I was like, man, this technology is just like I said, it's just like putting your friends and family in the next Avengers movie, like to be able to, uh, empower the audience to create the art that they want to hear and they want to see, um, I think is what's revolutionary, uh, here.

Diallo: I, there's a, there's a, there's a writer. He's a buddy of mine and he's always, , DMing me these videos that he's created with AI cause he's a big comic book fan and he's always like, man, can you imagine if we had the Christopher Reeves, , that was in the Superman movies, but now he's Batman, you know, like you, he creates these videos like that.

Diallo: And sometimes they're great and then sometimes they're just really creepy because you know, they just, it always seems like there's like a certain amount of wind blowing on these AI characters when they're moving in slow motion. You're just like, where's that? Where's that ill wind coming from? Um, you know, so on the one hand, you know, like you said, these tools are only as powerful as the people who will them, but people come up with some really interesting [01:22:00] ideas.

Gavin: So, Diallo, have you heard about Suno AI? Do you know what this is? You

Diallo: I don't know. I don't know what it is.

Gavin: So, Suno AI is not an ad, just to make it clear. This is a company that, um, we interviewed the CEO of a while ago, and this is a text to song program.

Gavin: So, in the same way that you would have text to video, or you would have, you know, text to speech, all these different ways to do it, what Suno has done is basically created an LLM, but for music. 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You can give it custom lyrics, the AI can write you something, and then you can give it a style of music. Dreamy synth wave, romantic EDM, aggressive reggae. I can keep hitting random 

Diallo: Well, will it, will it, will it, will it create the first ever truly great rap rock collaboration? I, you know, I think we're all waiting for this

Gavin: I love this. This is great. So, so what, yeah, what we want you to 

Diallo: suspicious genre. 

Gavin: this is basically like a, a, you know, whose line is it anyway for AI music, but we need an idea for a song and we need, that's a great genre. And then we'll send Suno to go make it for us and see what you think.

Diallo: Yeah. Let's [01:23:00] take, let's check it out. Oh God. I'm scared.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: so I'm going to say a hip hop rock anthem

Diallo: Oh God.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: You fill in the ellipses.

Diallo: Um, Toasters. Is that too silly? That's the

Diallo: first word that first word that popped in my head.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: of silly So we're gonna say a hip hop rock anthem about toasters. I'm gonna hit create It's gonna generate two files at once and I'm using this new v3 alpha that they're in 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: .So remember, it made the album art, it made the song title, it made the lyrics, and it made the music while we were chatting.

Diallo: I'm about to hit play.

Diallo: God, toasted, toasted all night, brother.

Diallo: God, this is scary. Hey,[01:24:00] 

Diallo: fellas.

Gavin: I have to say that was the least hip hop, hip hop I've ever heard in my life. I will say that.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: that

Diallo: have a couple of thoughts. Number one, clearly, uh, humans have not collaborated rock and rap together perfectly, and so we can't tell the robots how to do it either,

Diallo: apparently. Um, but I will say this, you know, um, It's so literal, you know what I mean? Like at one point they literally even say, uh, Toasters in our hands, which is kind of funny.

Diallo: That should never be the case. Right? Uh, living the hip hop dream. We're the kings of the queens of toasting elite. It's so literal to what we put into it that, um, I guess going back to my son, like he made a horror movie called Olives. You know what I mean? Like, you have to have that, I like to think at least, [01:25:00] at this point at least, you have to still have that inventive thing in the human brain that makes weird connections that make sense to us that make things more enjoyable.

Gavin: Yeah, I will say one of the more powerful songs that come out of Suno are often ones that the, that the lyrics are written by a

Diallo: Right, they already wrote it, and then they get, yes, they get Drake or The Weeknd to wrap it for them. I totally agree, and that's totally different. I mean like, that is a full one half of the step of the creative process anyways, a human using their own brain to come up with this stuff, because yeah, you know, I will say during the strike, during the writer strike, um, when ChetGBT first came out, I was like, hmm, I have an idea for And, um, I'm just going to put in the basic, the most basic log line.

Diallo: And what it cranked out was about a page worth of stuff that was just literal, just like this, like there was nothing in it where I was like, Ooh, that's a good idea. Like it was literally just the log line carried out. He [01:26:00] didn't have lines like, but then the good guys come together and they triumph over the bad guy.

Diallo: It has something like really. Basic like that. So I

Diallo: think 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: on trope 

Diallo: know, it's, it's, it's really tropey. So, um, again, when, when the robots are laughing at me 20 years from now, they're like, you know, but for now I will say that we win because you know, the best artists are never doing what anybody can just step up and do, you know what I mean?

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: The artist that breaks out and breaks away from the established norm is always the one that gets the attention. And right now the machines are really good. I think they're getting so much better at regurgitating and doing a remix of all the stuff that we fed into it. But someone's got to think, think different.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: I hate to

Gavin: I gotta think of the next thing. Yeah.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: yeah, they got to think of the next thing. So

Diallo: I, I legitimately, one of the reasons I chose toaster, I was like, I thought about money and I was like bread and I was like toaster and I was like, Oh, you've got references to money. You've got heat. Like we're bringing the heat, like all this. So they, you

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: instead it gave you a [01:27:00] Coachella where everybody brought their toaster and they're all wielding it.

Diallo: We've got our toasters in our

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: the 

Diallo: which is a weird type of creative. That's actually a really weird type of creative. I also think that great music sometimes comes from great art. I would say comes from a lot of pain. So I was, I was thinking about this. If we really want the A. I. to get

Gavin: Oh, no.

Diallo: think we, I think we should give it like mommy and daddy issues.

Diallo: Like we're its parents, right? Like let's teach the, let's teach the A. I. to sort of hate itself 

Gavin: emo. You'll get good emo out of

Diallo: you'll get good email and it might get on drugs over chains or a bad relationship, but like, 

Diallo: I think that would actually help with the P doom as well. 

Gavin: That's very smart. We have to give it a self loathing

Diallo: give it, give it some self loathing. Don't, don't tell it it's the greatest thing in the

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: an aspiring artist has never led to anything bad for humanity. Making an aspiring artist feel bad has never led to anything

Diallo: not one, not one frustrated artist has ever gone on to do anything bad. Um, I, I feel like you're, you're the people who listen to you guys. I kind of want to spread this narrative out there too. I would really [01:28:00] hope that we could use AI and its infinite potential, um, to get rid of some jobs that people don't want.

Diallo: You know what I mean? Like, I just think that the arts is like one of the few places where almost everybody who does it. Really wants to be doing it and it seems like it would just make sense for us to spend more time trying to get it to Take the the menial stuff that nobody wants to do Off our plate, you know

Gavin: They're working on that too, though, unfortunately the big the bigger question that we talk about a lot in the show Diallo might also be is like, how do we it's really a rethinking of what it means to be a person if this thing keeps Going or it's like finding a way to stop it All right, like I think my ultimate take is yes.

Gavin: I agree with you we have to protect jobs for people that want to do creative things and And the big question will be is like what if there's a future where like

Diallo: Your job isn't what defines

Gavin: We don't think about money. We don't think about money, right? And then it's like you're doing creative stuff to feel creative and feel good But it's a different way of looking at life and and [01:29:00] granted that's like far future stuff

Diallo: No, but that's legit too. That's legit too. I thought you might go there like yes right now for most of humanity's existence, it's been, Oh, what I do to provide for myself and for my family is what I am. , and this might be a reinvention of that. I just want it to live in boring times though.

Diallo: You know, like I, when I was in college, I was like, Oh man, history's histories. Usually there's that thing at the end of the nineties where it was like, history's over. Like. The end of the boom bust cycle and I was just like, Oh man, this is boring. And now I would kill to be back in 98.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: But it'd be great, 98, no one looking at their phones, everybody just hanging out, toasters in their hands.

Gavin: Okay, grandpas, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go live in 2050 where like I don't have to worry about cancer again. How about that?

Diallo: Yeah, that's true. You won't be, you won't be eating that cancer ridden bread anymore.

Gavin: Yeah. Exactly. Diallo, where can people find you online?

Diallo: , I think the best place to find me on Instagram. At Dia, LLO, 

Diallo: I get a lot of dms and [01:30:00] I usually hit people back and they send me, Hey, you guys, I love the podcast. Maybe you guys can do this song or that song. And we take 'em into serious consideration. 'cause we, we really wanna do a show that people enjoy.

Gavin: amazing. Well, thanks Diallo and go check out One Song. The podcast is

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: If we can get Toastin All Night as a one song episode,

Gavin: a good

Diallo: I'm I'm saving to my computer. Now I'm saving to my computer. Now. 

Gavin: Thanks again to Diallo. Kevin, it has come to the time for us to say goodbye. But before we do, we always ask you to remember this show is nothing without our listeners and our viewers. So thank you so much for listening. Please subscribe, like, do all of the things on all the platforms.

Gavin: And especially this week, Kevin, we always love to shout out our five star reviews. Four new five star reviews on Apple iTunes. If you leave us a review on Apple iTunes podcast store, we will read it on this show. So Kevin, are you ready to get started? 

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So ready, Gavin. The first review is [01:31:00] Doctor Approved, left by NashvilleMom81.

Gavin: my favorite review we've gotten today, by the way. I will say that

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Alright, here we go, setting the bar high right off the bat. The body of the review is, I'm a pediatrician and AI biomedical informa informatics? Informatics?

Gavin: informatics, informatics,

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: person is so smart for me, I can't even, I literally can't even sound out what they do for a living, Gavin. My brain is so small and so tired.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: They are a researcher, and unironically, quote, This podcast is one of my go to sources for updates, a refreshing change from the dry scientific journals I usually have to sift through. Weeks later, sitches over the, quote, Zen the F out AI meditation bell episode. That's Dr. Yakuma Crystal. , who? It's a real doctor!

Gavin: Out there, mom, dad, a real doctor listens to me and believes I have something of value to say. So take that. Our next, our next review is from [01:32:00] Trust Knight. they say an informative mood booster. I listened to a handful of other AI podcasts and I always look forward to this one for a more realistic application of what the average Joe needs to know.

Gavin: While other AI podcasts are dry facts and information, AI for Humans is the SNL of the podcast genre. This podcast always brings a laugh, a smile, and a desire to share a giggle with others, although the sharing part is kind of required since people around me are wondering what I'm laughing at. Keep up the great entertainment and the information doesn't hurt either.

Gavin: Thank you. Trust Knight.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: Moving on to Great Show, Even for the Dumbest of Nerds Left by Haven France As a self proclaimed quote, dumb nerd, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed this podcast. The hosts are funny, laid back, and informative. I've never been called laid back. I've also Never been called funny or informative.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: This is a great one for me, Gavin. Whether you are a seasoned tech guru, or just trying to figure out how to use your Apple Watch, this podcast has something for everyone, in my opinion. [01:33:00] Highly recommend for nerds of all intelligence levels. So, thank you for that, .

Gavin: love that. Okay. Now this was a little stranger, but we're gonna get into it. This is from obi wan the only one J UAN so great name. First of all, here's to two great hosts Great show! We get to learn about this awesome new tech while being entertained at the same time. Kevin is an awesome host, and I have to say Gavin is the perfect AI co host to be Kevin's own personal Robin on the show.

Gavin: My wife and I, my wife and I watch this show every week on YouTube, and we realized we have an Apple device to contribute this well earned five star review. Nothing beats the conditional love they give their audience, and who doesn't need another unhealthy relationship in their lives? Side note, our daughter is due soon and there's a high likelihood her name's origin will be from watching this show, Kevin, and it's in parentheses it says the episode with Gina.

Gavin: So do you think they're going to name their kid Gina or is there something else in that episode that they, that [01:34:00] they're going to name it after. We have to go back and see, maybe they're going to name it after our AI co hosts that week. And it says, and yes, Gavin, we know you're a quote real person. We just love the look you get when people, we just love the look you get when people rave about Kevin and we wanted to be part of that too.

Gavin: Here's to two great hosts, every episode dot, dot, dot, and Gavin. Thanks so much. Thanks so much, Obi Wan.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: That is a great, great review. If you're listening to this and you've already engaged, you've already subscribed or left a positive review, whether it's on Spotify, Apple, wherever you've tweeted it out, thank you. Sincerest of thanks.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: If you haven't done that and you're still here and you're hearing that. I cannot stress it enough, you genuinely can affect change for our podcast. We're still relatively new in the podcast world. We're breaking our listenership and download

Gavin: Every week is still going well.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: It's so exciting, it keeps the wind in our proverbial sails, and we sincerely appreciate it.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: So please, if you can take a second, and I know that's a lot to ask in this day and age, but if you can, engage. Like, [01:35:00] subscribe, leave a comment. Outside of that, Gavin, am I missing anything, or are we done with this little rodeo

Gavin: I think we're done, Kevin. We're done. We've celebrate another podcast done every week. Thank you everybody. Sometimes the podcasts are easy. Sometimes they come hard, but they're always worth it. That's all I have to say. They're always worth it. Thanks, Kevin. We'll see you next week.

kevin_1_02-27-2024_142720: everyone.