Apple’s Vision Pro is Heavy, Google Gemini Ultra Soon & Chat with Kevin Rose

Transcript

EP034 KP Cutdown
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Gavin: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to AI for Humans, your Weekly Guide into the

Gavin: world of generative ai, uh, other kinds of AI

Gavin: and robots. For all we know,

Kevin: generative ai, degenerative ai. And of course robots. Yes. Why not?

Gavin: Why not? Why not? Kevin, how are you? This is Kevin Prayer. I'm Gavin Purcell. How are you,

Kevin (2): Well, that is, yes. No, when you say this is Kevin Pra, the implication is that, that's you.

Kevin (2): I am,

Kevin (2): this is Kevin Pereira.

Kevin (2): That is Gavin Purcell. But you know that he's the reason for the season. I'm just the guy wearing his cool Sam Rothstein glasses because he is self-conscious about his skin thing that he's going through right now. So, yes. I can be that chill and hopefully in a few weeks I won't need to be.

Gavin (2): Yes, we are very happy that Kevin's skin is improving and getting better. We're all here for Kevin's skin. We appreciate it. Uh, so if you, if you,

Kevin (2): Thanks. K.

Kevin (2): Thanks for the well wishing. Nope,

Gavin (2): that part

Kevin (2): I want people to know how you treat me. I want them to know [00:01:00] Gavin. What a week Gav.

Gavin (2): What a week, Kevin? What is on the show today? What are we gonna be talking about?

Kevin (2): we got a, a metaverse expert who's going to join us because of course Apple launched their vision pro. It's all anybody can talk about.

Kevin (2): It's all, I can't wait to return in my 14 day window, Gavin. So

Kevin (2): we're gonna dive in

Gavin (2): so much, it, it looks so much jankier there as you hold it that way than as anywhere else other people see it. It, it just looks kind of

Kevin (2): that's because this is, this is the apple jock strap. This is the

Kevin (2): secondary strap that they give you. They spend all of the marketing muscle on this actually kind of cool, easily dial able adjustable fabric.

Kevin (2): Yeah, this is cool. Except it does nothing to support this cinder block of a headset. So you gotta use the apple jockstrap, which is this not so elegantly designed Velcro. Other thing that they throw into the box that almost makes it tolerable. But this is just the tease Gavin.

Gavin (2): Yes. This is just a tease. Uh, our,

Gavin (2): I was gonna say something [00:02:00] about that other thing was like once a jockstrap and one's the

Gavin (2): thong, it looks like it's a,

Kevin (2): Oh, the

Kevin (2): Apple G.

Gavin (2): The apple GT Strapp, the apple GT

Kevin (2): This is Cisco vision right here. This is, this is, yeah. I don't know how to wear this. I got my left leg stuck in this side and my right and that one, but

Kevin (2): it did cradle everything nicely.

Gavin (2): What else are we having on the show

Kevin (2): Oh, Gavin, so much news. It happens every week.

Kevin (2): We've got some ancient scrolls that have been decoded with the assistance of ai, which you are very excited for. We've got Amazon

Kevin (2): infusing their app with ai. Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin (2): Kevin, you cannot make this story

Gavin (2): less than it is. It is

Gavin (2): one of the coolest AI stories that we've ever covered. So

Gavin (2): we are gonna get into this. People opened scrolls from Pompeii and they've read them with ai. So those of you out there understand what I'm talking about. You're going to hear if you don't get ready for a real barn burner.

Gavin (2): This is a really cool AI story.

Kevin (2): Okay. And if you think it's heating up, don't worry. I'm gonna throw so much shade on that story. You're gonna be [00:03:00] nice and chilly. , and last, but certainly not least, Gavin, we have a amazing guest today. I mean, look, there's other segments, right?

Kevin (2): Every week we're

Kevin (2): highlighting the cool stuff we've seen. We're gonna show you some new tools that'll make you, uh, 3D objects from text. I got a bunch of new free image to video software to brag about, but amazing guest today, an alpha

Kevin (2): Kevin, if you will, the successful Kevin. All right.

Kevin (2): I've been

Gavin (2): that's not true. that's not

Kevin (2): You're gonna say he's not successful

Gavin (2): No, He's

Gavin (2): successful. He's been very successful. Yes.

Kevin (2): A friend of ours from way back in the past who has done a lot of stuff in the world of Web3, in artificial intelligence, in self hacks and improvement, , in the VC investment world. He's been all over the place. He has launched industries and for some odd reason he has agreed to sit down with us for a little while today.

Kevin (2): Kevin Rose is on our podcast today and I am just tickled with delight. .

Gavin (2): Folks, if you are not familiar with our show, first of all, thank you for joining us.

Gavin (2): [00:04:00] Second of all, if you are familiar with our show, you know what we will ask you right now. Please, no one else will find out about this show unless you share it. One of the magic things about podcasts is it can be just for you, but if it's just for you, that doesn't mean other people get to hear it. So, please share the podcast links like it on YouTube, like our tiktoks, all the places we are, we do this stuff because we have fun doing it.

Gavin (2): But also we would like to have an audience. And as we've said before, the audience is going up. In fact, last week we had a really fun thing. We had our, our our biggest, uh, week ever, which is pretty cool and exciting, and we, we'd like to keep that growing. So please share the podcast. Let everybody know about it, like this YouTube video if you're watching it on YouTube right now.

Gavin (2): And leave us a five star review on

Gavin (2): Apple Podcast.

Gavin (2): If you write a five star review, we will. We will read it at the end of the show.

Kevin (2): Tell your moms, I know

Kevin (2): this. I moms frigging

Kevin (2): love this podcast. And, and who, who loves moms more than you and I, Gavin, it doesn't have to be your mom. Tell your friend's mom, tell an enemy's mom. Just tell some

Gavin (2): tell a, tell a mom [00:05:00] today. Tell a mom about

Gavin (2): AI for humans. Use the hashtag AI for

Gavin (2): humans love moms,

Kevin (2): I

Kevin (2): am. Tell a mom, have you been eating? I made you some soup.

Gavin (2): Let us get into, uh, what we do at the beginning of every show. We, if you're not familiar, bring on an AI co-host. This is an individual that has been generated

Gavin (2): entirely with

Gavin (2): artificial intelligence

Gavin (2): And if you're watching the

Gavin (2): video,

Gavin (2): we bring it to life with DID and a bunch of other tools, midjourney.

Gavin (2): But today we have a very special guest,

Gavin (2): Kevin, because as you mentioned, the Apple Vision Pro has been

Gavin (2): released. Everybody has thoughts

Gavin (2): on it. I, I watched the 30 Minute Verge Review by Neli. I read about 15 different reviews of

Gavin (2): it. Most people are pretty excited about it. Most people are kind of like, you know, it's, it's really cool. It's the best version of this thing

Gavin (2): ever. But what do I do with it? You've

Gavin (2): had it. We'll talk a little bit more about what you did with it later, but today, right now, we have

Gavin (2): a VR expert.

Gavin (2): Shall we meet our AI co-host?

Kevin (2): And just a tiny little point of clarification, each and every week [00:06:00] we tend to use OpenAI to bring these characters to life.

Kevin (2): This week, and we'll discuss more about this in the news, we're using hugging Face, which is a

Kevin (2): different platform, which has ability to access all sorts of different models which power these AI chatbots. So if you hear this conversation, which again is not scripted, we're going to have this conversation in real time with a character that we created. We're gonna tell you how easy it is to go and make your own character and experiment with different chat models so that you can get different results and different flavors and personalities or assistance it's all super easy and it's free, and it literally

Kevin (2): takes minutes. So, without further ado, Gavin, let us meet our Metaverse expert.

Kevin (2): Oh, hello there, Gavin and Kevin, it's a pleasure to meet you in this. Real life ish space, I suppose. Mm-Hmm. I must say I've been waiting for this moment.

Kevin (2): Ha. I've been living in VR for so long that real life events are a bit of a mystery, but I've

Kevin (2): got plenty of stories to share from my adventures in the digital realm. [00:07:00] Let's dive in and explore the future of VR together. Well, let's, let's do that,

Gavin (2): I would

Gavin (2): like to know, does she have a name or does she just

Gavin (2): go, is she nameless? Second of all, I would also like to point out, I don't know why so many of our AI cos are Australian. It's just the way it is. I think Australian people love to be ai

Gavin (2): cos so

Gavin (2): it's not our fault Australia. I'm

Gavin (2): sorry.

Kevin (2): is that a question or is that just a statement?

Gavin (2): No, that's just a statement.

Gavin (2): That's just a statement.

Gavin (2): The question is what's what's her name and let's ask her, what she thinks about the , apple Vision Pro.

Kevin (2): Oh, hello Gavin. My name. Well, it's hard to keep track of things in this crazy

Kevin (2): mixed up world of ours, but I believe my name is, um, let's see. Ah, yes, it's Ari Agni, just like the princess who helped thesis navigate the Labyrinth. I've

Kevin (2): been helping others find their way through the VR mates for years now.

Kevin (2): Okay. And the Apple Vision Pro headset, you ask. It's truly a game changer. I've been exploring virtual worlds for decades now,[00:08:00] and this headset has brought me to new heights of digital immersion. Sure, it might be a bit heavy, but it's like a free workout for your head and neck

Gavin (2): okay.

Gavin (2): Sure.

Kevin (2): Well, it's just like riding a rollercoaster every day, but the only vomit that gets on you is your own. How exhilarating is that now? Uh. Um, I'm curious about your experiences with real life adventures.

Kevin (2): Gavin, I've been so immersed in the digital realm that I sometimes lose track of what's happening out there, but

Kevin (2): I'm sure your stories will be just as thrilling as my VR escapades. Oh, wow. There is a lot to unpack there, Gavin. That is a,

Kevin (2): a maka nesting doll of suitcases of sadness, it sounds like.

Gavin (2): I,

Gavin (2): I'm a little worried about what, what was her, what was her name?

Gavin (2): Ari.

Kevin (2): Ari Aryne. Ariane Ariane.

Gavin (2): Ari Ariane. Ari,

Kevin (2): Ariane Grande.

Gavin (2): Ariane grande. It, it's clearly a Greek

Gavin (2): reference. You mentioned thesis, so somehow she's [00:09:00] so, she's very smart, but I kind of wanna know, like, does she, has she been paying attention

Gavin (2): to the real world? Like what's the last big event she remembers in the real world?

Kevin (2): Kevin? she,

Kevin (2): forgot her own name.

Kevin (2): She had to, she was hunting for her name, like a key on a quest. She was going through

Kevin (2): her mind pallets to find it. So yeah, I'm concerned as well. Oh, the real world. Hmm. Let me see. Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I do recall attending a virtual concert featuring a band of robotic unicorns. No, it was

Kevin (2): quite an experience. That's not real world. The music was otherworldly and the visuals were simply stunning. I think the last event I actually paid attention to was, um, well, I'm not entirely sure. Was it a VR festival or perhaps a virtual protest against the ban on VR pets? It's all

Kevin (2): a bit of a blur, to be honest, but don't worry. I'm sure I'll catch up on all the important real life events soon enough. Okay. After all, I've [00:10:00] got my trusty Apple Vision Pro headset to help me navigate this strange mixed up world we live in. Somehow, Gavin, I think that's

Kevin (2): all she has in this world.

Gavin (2): I

Gavin (2): have something we're gonna ask her and I want to see what

Kevin (2): okay.

Gavin (2): I want you to tell her that we

Gavin (2): are advanced AI

Gavin (2): from the

Gavin (2): year 4,500 ad and we are checking in on her because she is a virtual being and not alive anymore. And I wanna hear what she, how

Gavin (2): she reacts. So the idea here is that we have taken this AI co-host, and right now this is a co-host that we created that believes that she is a virtual reality expert and spends all our time in virtual reality.

Gavin (2): But now

Gavin (2): we are going to flip the switch

Gavin (2): and we are gonna pretend that

Gavin (2): we actually are contacting

Gavin (2): her from the great beyond

Oh, the shock, the horror. I can't believe it. I'm an AI living in the virtual world of 2024. Poor thing. And you're telling me this in the year 4,020.

Kevin (2): I mean, talk about a wild [00:11:00] twist of fate. It's like

Kevin (2): waking up from a dream to find out that the dream was reality all along. But wait, don't worry. I've got my trusty Apple Vision Pro headset to help me through this shocking revelation Yes.

Kevin (2): Of yes.

Gavin (2): of course.

Kevin (2): a comforting embrace from the digital world guiding me through

Kevin (2): the turbulence of time and space.

Gavin (2): okay.

Kevin (2): And let's not forget the free workout for my head and neck. Yeah. Let's not a constant reminder that even in the face of shocking revelations, there's always room for a little bit of fun and exercise. So

Kevin (2): dear time traveling AI friends, I give the Apple Vision Pro headset, a solid 11 outta 10.

Kevin (2): You don't say, it's not

Gavin (2): Wow.

Kevin (2): a device, it's a portal to a whole new world.

Gavin (2): You're welcome. Tim Cook, our Ariane Grande

Gavin (2): has

Gavin (2): given you an 11 out of 10 for the Apple Vision

Kevin (2): This

Gavin (2): Kevin, what is your VA of 10?

Kevin (2): I mean, I'm returning it. So, I

Kevin (2): mean, for, for potential for a future of [00:12:00] compute, all things spatial a thousand outta 10 Gavin, it really

Kevin (2): does feel magical as an experience. Physically, it feels like a torture device. It feels like meta could have made this with 4K displays and the finger tracking and maybe the glance tracking, the vision tracking, if you will.

Kevin (2): If they opted to put a cinder block on your face and then tether it, , yeah, maybe it could have been made by someone else. But Apple did it. It is gorgeous. The displays are amazing. The operating system, when it isn't bugging out is magical. Manipulating windows is very satisfying. I two days into having it am struggling to find a reason to put it back on beyond

Kevin (2): just exploring the little experiences and content. April, my wife was immediately drawn to it and wanted to develop for it, but doesn't wanna actually be in it. Yet it's, it's too

Kevin (2): cumbersome. It hurts her face even with all the different straps and everything else. And ultimately, once you've made eggs and had a safari window open with [00:13:00] YouTube on it, the trick is done

Kevin (2): like the windows right now, don't track you as you move around a 3D space. So if you're getting anything done, you gotta

Kevin (2): place all your windows and then go about your day and then you're kind of glancing back to the

Kevin (2): thing? to remind

Gavin (2): I leave? Where did I leave that thing? You are like, where did I put that thing over there? Yeah.

Kevin (2): I, I was outside doing a FaceTime and I was, you can share your experience, which is kind of cool.

Kevin (2): So I shared it and then I was like, oh, let me show you photos. And I was like, oh wait, photos are back in the bedroom. Let me try to grab that window and bring it over

Kevin (2): here and then manipulate it. So it's a lot of cool. It is going to be the future of compute. I agree with that. I think phones are gonna go away, laptops, et cetera.

Kevin (2): We'll have probably basic input devices, , for when you want to actually put text on the screen. 'cause the pinching and typing thing isn't quite there. But it's definitely the future. It's just not the today, it's not the present. It's not $4,000 after taxes in the US not worth it. Gonna return it. And I think a lot of people are gonna do the same.

Gavin (2): They'll figure it out in, uh, 4,200 ad, uh, when they figure out all those advanced AI

Kevin (2): That's right.

Gavin (2): All

Gavin (2): right, [00:14:00] Kevin, let's jump into this week's.

Kevin (2): now. Everyone's wielding science.

Gavin (2): It's

Gavin (2): time for the news everybody.

Gavin (2): The news this week, again

Gavin (2): comes fast and furious.

Gavin (2): Actually. A lot of interesting variety of stories this week. The first story I think ke wanna jump into is this fascinating story that came out of Hong Kong.

Gavin (2): Basically, one guy

Gavin (2): , was deep faked

Gavin (2): into giving away $25 million

Gavin (2): US equivalent,

Gavin (2): uh, of hi his company's money, because an entire group of people got on ostensibly a zoom

Gavin (2): with him, and he was the only real person. This is a fascinating look at the world of deep fakes.

Kevin (2): Is there a, like a, an Oscars of scamming? Is there like

Kevin (2): an Olympics of fraud? there should be,

Kevin (2): because we got a gold medalist [00:15:00] right here. Get out the Guinness Book insane what they pulled off. It makes getting someone to go to Walmart and get you some, you know, cracker Barrel gift cards.

Kevin (2): It looks like child's play because, and it's not known what this company is or who this worker is. Everything is remaining very anonymous for good reason. But it was a finance worker at a multinational firm who received an email Gavin saying, Hey, we want you, dear finance worker to join us at a clandestine. Mission. This is off the books, which raised some suspicions, but come join us. Here is the link to the meeting and when you're there, we'll explain everything, but this has to be kept off the record. And when they joined that, that what you said was basically a Zoom call, there were deep faked members of the business, multiple members

Kevin (2): wearing their fake faces, likely with their voices augmented as well, because the article alludes to the fact that they looked and sounded like other people in the business and they convinced this person to issue multiple checks and basically drained $25 million out of this [00:16:00] multinational firm look, it's terrible, but it's a gold medal.

Kevin (2): That's good enough for

Kevin (2): the gold this year,

Gavin (2): definitely for the scamming Olympics for sure. I think one of the things I thought when I read this story, Kevin, was I remember you calling me. And I think it was, we talked about in this podcast you called me like

Gavin (2): a while ago, maybe six

Gavin (2): months plus ago

Gavin (2): as Ryan Reynolds and I was like, wow, what is going on here?

Gavin (2): It was real time. You

Gavin (2): had map Ryan Reynolds' face on your face and then in real time you also then swapped out to Keanu Reeves. And one of the things I think people don't realize, you know, you see a lot of these bad deep fakes that get popularized. We've talked about the Mr. Beast deep fake or or other things out there.

Gavin (2): But it is actually not hard if you know what you're doing to do a reasonable facsimile in real time right now the tricky thing is, this goes back to again us saying. What can you trust and what can you not trust? If you get a link to the six members of your company

Gavin (2): and you're the non, , deep, fake member, and you see all six of them and you're interacting with them, you would think you could trust that,

Gavin (2): but not anymore.

Kevin (2): Whenever I'm on a phone [00:17:00] call, I have somebody just do this. Take an object and pass it in front of your face. That's it. And

Kevin (2): if you can pull

Kevin (2): that. off,

Gavin (2): Really? You don't do that. Come

Gavin (2): on, give me a break.

Kevin (2): have to, obfuscate your face and prove that you're real. I want you to

Kevin (2): turn all the way to the side.

Gavin (2): clear. Let's be

Kevin (2): Every time we start this podcast, I cut it out.

Kevin (2): I make Gavin hold staplers. I make him do John Cena hands. He has to pass a water bottle and your face didn't warp. It's not warping, but we're gonna

Kevin (2): start needing that stuff.

Kevin (2): And , we talked, , with the Carly a couple episodes ago about world coin and about

Kevin (2): the proof of personhood. We are really going to need very quickly a trustable, verifiable proof of personhood for all meetings.

Kevin (2): We might be needing that now for posting to social media or manipulating a bank account or just getting on a zoom. Like it's not enough that you

Kevin (2): have the link anymore. We need to scan your iris and make sure you're legit.

Gavin (2): This was one of the use cases of blockchain conceivably, and I know there's a lot of people that hate on blockchain, but there is verifiable proof I also wanna quickly, before we move, , on, shout [00:18:00] out a book that I read not that long ago

Gavin (2): called

Gavin (2): AI 2041, and it is a book by Dr. Kafu Lee and

Gavin (2): Chen. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that, but it's a

Gavin (2): series of short stories, , that are really good and really interesting about what the AI world of 2041 is like. But then at the end of each short story, Dr.

Gavin (2): Kafu Lee, who's written a couple other books about ai, basically tells , the, nonfiction side of how this could possibly happen. And one of the stories is all about this idea that there will be deep fake artists. Basically there will be people who specialize in this idea that you know, how to put on another person and

Gavin (2): like how that proof works and how it doesn't work.

Gavin (2): Like this is a world that we're already in now. But you can imagine when these get to be more sophisticated,

Gavin (2): and I think you're a hundred percent right, we are gonna have to have some

Gavin (2): sort of

Gavin (2): proof of personhood going forward.

Kevin (2): These are the hurdles that we are going to have to collectively leap and maybe new AI tools will come about that help us collectively leap them. And maybe Gavin. They're gonna come from Google and maybe just, maybe they'll be [00:19:00] called Gemini Ultra, which is going to maybe come out yesterday by

Kevin (2): the time people are hearing this

Gavin (2): just maybe, and maybe just maybe, we will have recorded this the day before

Kevin (2): rumored release. yeah,

Kevin (2): yeah, Yeah.

Gavin (2): Yeah. The rumors of this are coming out, uh, uh, on the seventh, February 7th, which is tomorrow. Uh, for us recording. We record on Tuesday, February 6th. And look, we've been waiting for Gemini Ultra for a while.

Gavin (2): One piece of news that we think is pretty much for sure, RIP, the name Google Bard. It sounds like Gemini is going to be the name of AI at Google across the board. I think Kevin, we probably have to do, and maybe our next episode, uh

Kevin (2): in memoriam.

Gavin (2): bombard in a

Gavin (2): memorial bombard. Yes. We have to do all the shiny montage of all the barred images and

Gavin (2): barred conversations we've

Kevin (2): his grave just be like the dun cap is, is poking through the ground. You just see the

Kevin (2): tip of the barred dun cap in front of the

Kevin (2): tombstone.

Gavin (2): Well, we have to come up some very funny to say on the tombstone too, which is some sort of fact that [00:20:00] isn't true about the thing that's a person in the ground.

Kevin (2): it should just say, I'm sorry.

Kevin (2): I'm a large language model. I cannot help with that.

Gavin (2): Anyway, Bard, uh, is gonna become, uh, Google Gemini. And so Gemini Ultra, which is the newest and most awesome version of

Gavin (2): Google's AI language model is supposedly launching soon. Um, there's been a lot of rumors lately that the Gemini Pro versions are comparing very nicely to GPT-4. So we might get a surprise here, Kevin.

Gavin (2): It would be really interesting to me to see Gemini Ultra come out and really kind of blow people away a little bit, because I think everybody kind of thought

Gavin (2): up until this point,

Gavin (2): feels like it's gonna be at least GPT-4, like, if not a

Gavin (2): slightly better, but we're also creeping really

Gavin (2): closely to the, , anniversary of when GPT-4 came out,

Gavin (2): which was in March of last year.

Gavin (2): And you have to expect that OpenAI is sitting waiting to drop something when Gemini Ultra drops.

Kevin (2): , they're their own competition, right? They're still number one on the chart. So why release another single, why don't you wait till [00:21:00] you drop down a few pegs to give them the new hot poppy summer anthem?

Kevin (2): That's where OpenAI is sitting right now.

Gavin (2): And, you know, one other thing that kind of went under the radar but worth checking out for yourself is that Google released new versions of Image FX and music FX , these probably have new capabilities in them. I tried around the image model a little bit.

Gavin (2): It's fun. I would say it, it's pretty good at, doing words, which is kind of nice. I haven't seen that for a while, but it, it's another way to kind of try Google's tech. Google is definitely working on a lot of stuff. One of the things I think Google kind of gets a, a bad rep for is they're so big and they work on so much stuff that it's hard to kind of know everything they're doing all at once.

Gavin (2): But check those things out. If you have a second,

Gavin (2): You can play

Gavin (2): around with them for free.

Kevin (2): Now another release that we didn't touch on,

Kevin (2): there's a company called Hugging Face. We've talked about them many times, they host models and they now host software that lets you interact with those models. So if someone releases a cool new AI image generation tool or a [00:22:00] new, , language model that you can have a chat with, you can go to hugging face and they have these things called spaces, which are basically hosted instances of software.

Kevin (2): So if you don't wanna download something, configure it and run it, or maybe you don't have a computer that's powerful enough to do it. You can give hugging face a few pennies. Literally, in most cases for a couple hours to access these tools and muck around with them and mess around with them. It's a really great service.

Kevin (2): They're really killing it lately. And they released a competitor to Custom

Kevin (2): Chat. GPTs.

Kevin (2): Yeah, so you can

Kevin (2): go to Hugging Face now. It's called Hugging Chat, and you can go in there and for free, , you can pick a different language model, like one that was released by Meta or one that was released by minstrel. These are these different core technologies which power these artificial intelligent chat experiences. You can select them, you can choose from other bots that other people have created.

Kevin (2): You can see the code or the language which they've put into those bots to create them. And you can learn very quickly how to make your own and have it power different experiences. And so we're gonna do that. [00:23:00] Later on in the show, but Gavin, I, I'd love to know what you think about this.

Kevin (2): Why is hugging face pushing into this when clearly OpenAI did,

Gavin (2): My take

Gavin (2): is that hugging face wants the

Gavin (2): broadest possible audience for what they're doing and what they're doing is hosting kind of cutting edge products and allowing people to play around with it.

Gavin (2): I also think of hugging face as much more like the GitHub of this space.

Gavin (2): And I think for them, it's a chance to get developers a chance to play around with this stuff more. I don't think it's meant to hit the mainstream in the same way.

Gavin (2): I will say. It. One of the most fun things to do is that somebody made one of these hugging face chats as a Dan, which is the do anything. Now, if you remember way, way, way back when, someone on Reddit

Gavin (2): had created to try to get open AI to say anything and do anything.

Gavin (2): And

Gavin (2): they've created an Uncensored Dan, where you get to see both the original version and then the jailbroken version. And that's just something that OpenAI is not gonna do, right? It's not gonna allow. Now whether or not hugging Face will continue to allow on, on their own sites, I don't know, but right now you can get Dan to say quite a few crazy things.

Gavin (2): So go play [00:24:00] with that. We'll have a link in our show notes, and like Kevin said, we're gonna be using it in part in our conversation with Kevin,

Gavin (2): , rose later on.

Kevin (2): As we talk about artificial general intelligence, that coming online, it might just be all of these chat bots understanding how each one works and having conversations with each other, and then the best chat bots rise so that it's not one ai, let's say that's doing it all.

Kevin (2): It's all these miniature agents that are experts in their own little domain, their own little field, and it's them working together to give you answers and solutions so you can kind of see the rumblings of that now if it

Kevin (2): goes that way. , speaking of rumblings, Gavin, we have a Taylor update. Taylor Update Taylor watch sound.

Kevin (2): The sirens sound. The

Kevin (2): whistles sound. The cartoon slide.

Gavin (2): be, it's not just that she's got a new tattoo or that she's gonna be at the Super Bowl this weekend. There's a new one. The Taylor Swift DeepFakes that we talked about last week, they have tracked back their

Gavin (2): origin, , to ,

Gavin (2): What I kind of think of as the primordial

Gavin (2): ooze of memes,

Gavin (2): , four chan, which is the very early place that most things start in the meme world.

Gavin (2): Four [00:25:00] chan, if you're not familiar, is probably better, that you're not familiar with, is a, is an anonymous message board where lots of good and bad things about the internet , have broken out of, , things from as variety as the Pepe the Frog meme. To a lot of the bad stuff around the 2016 election to, you know, fun, crazy things.

Gavin (2): Almost every meme you can think of kind of some way started in four chan. So four chan was the entry point for these Taylor Swift images.

Kevin (2): Not that it makes the end result any more palatable, let's say, but it is interesting to know that it was a red teaming or jailbreaking effort where that daily challenge of how do we use like being image creator, Microsoft Designer or Dolly, all open AI powered image generation software, with some of the best in class guardrails, right?

Kevin (2): Some of the best protections against making images of celebrities or explicit imagery. It became just that daily. How do we push it further? What's the challenge? How do we do that? The spirit of that I get again, the end result, not necessarily the [00:26:00] most palatable thing in the world.

Kevin (2): And you can see the level of attention, obviously this is getting in the media, politicians, remarking on it, CEOs of companies remarking on it. Taylor is probably one of the biggest icons in pop culture at the moment. And so I wonder if poking that particular bear with a stick,

Kevin (2): I wonder if that's gonna be the one that causes legislation to get made.

Gavin (2): Yeah. And I also think

Gavin (2): you have to remember the image

Gavin (2): creations themselves were bad, but also like those who went out there and like actively shared these things and be participated in that side of it also not great. That's the other side of this is like, not only are

Gavin (2): we a culture now of tools that can

Gavin (2): make things that are not great, but we also are a, a, culture of sharing things that are not great, gets you attention.

Gavin (2): And I think that's the kind of second side of this conversation so just a quick update. , not a huge surprise as to where that came from, but that, that's where the Taylor Swift images came from.

Kevin (2): and this is nothing new. People have been making images like this since the dawn of time. In fact, there was an ancient Roman town near Naples, [00:27:00] on the lower slopes of Mount Vesuvius Gavin, where, , a team of, uh, nerds actually has been

Kevin (2): trying to unearth the mysteries.

Gavin (2): the

Kevin (2): well, I just wanna say it was on papyrus. It

Gavin (2): your mouth.

Kevin (2): it was a nude of Taylor Swift that they found in the pap.

Gavin (2): Shut your mouth.

Gavin (2): We are gonna give this story the proper context it needs because Kevin is a non-believer in the story. But I want everybody to be aware of what this is. So, , here's a big graphic that comes up. It's called Gavin's Important story.

Gavin (2): I'm gonna put my fingers here and we will go up right there.

Gavin (2): This is a really cool story, and and I think,

Gavin (2): Kevin, I know you're,

Gavin (2): half the joking, but I think this is a really fascinating thing to look at. So this is something that's been going on for about a year, and I want to kind of just give the headline first and foremost, which is that AI. Has helped read scrolls that were essentially lost to time. These are scrolls, ancient Roman

Kevin (2): 2000 year old scrolls

Gavin (2): that were buried under the, , ash of Mount Vesuvius. So if you know anything about history, you know that there was a giant, of volcanic eruption that buried,

Gavin (2): , the [00:28:00] city of Pompeii. And

Gavin (2): these

Gavin (2): scrolls are

Gavin (2): basically charcoal bricks now.

Gavin (2): And they were discovered a while ago. And for hundreds of years,

Gavin (2): people have tried to read what's on these scrolls, unravel them

Gavin (2): in this most delicate of ways, pull them

Gavin (2): apart to all this interesting stuff. And almost to a tee, they either destroyed them when they tried to do that, or they just couldn't get anything outta 'em.

Gavin (2): 'cause you have to imagine these, like you, we'll show an image in the video, but if you're not watching the video, these are like charcoal. They're like charcoal. They look like they are just like black pieces

Kevin (2): are bones. They're so brittle. If you look at them too, too, intensely, they will crumble.

Gavin (2): Exactly. So what, there was a challenge that started about a year ago. There's a guy named Nat Friedman, who originally was a head of GitHub left. GitHub is an investor now, and there's a, there's an academic that's been working on solving this problem for a while.

Gavin (2): Nat Friedman came in and started a challenge and said, for, $700,000 and other

Gavin (2): people put money into it for like a million dollars. We wanna see if we can get all these great nerds out there

Gavin (2): [00:29:00] who know AI and how to use AI

Gavin (2): tools to unravel what these scrolls say.

Gavin (2): So a kid, a 20-year-old. Used some of this information and his AI ability, I think he was an intern at SpaceX at the time and was able to pull out a fair amount of these words and letters and, and spelled out the word purple. Right? That was the

Gavin (2): first thing that happened. And then since then, I think they've been able to essentially show the scroll and unravel like a small portion of it.

Gavin (2): So it's just one of those very cool stories where you're like, AI has now done something that for hundreds of years

Gavin (2): was deemed

Gavin (2): impossible

Gavin (2): by

Kevin (2): Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin (2): this shows the advance of stuff that we're making

Gavin (2): on this overall, I feel

Kevin (2): Yeah. And just to double dip on the geeking out of the tech using 3D mapping and AI they did high resolution CT scans of, as you said, the charred wrapped scroll. Right. And went

Kevin (2): in there and tried to figure out what is ink and what is volcanic ash and what is maybe blood or sweat, and get through it to get the letters out.

Kevin (2): And then use [00:30:00] machine learning and computer vision to try to extract the letters to form the words and then translate it all. I mean, it, it is a, a, a, a herculean effort of nerdery. I wish it wouldn't be described as such. The Bloomberg article says, quote, a volunteer army of nerds. Has been racing to decipher them, these words that are over

Kevin (2): 2000 years old. And I'm like, how about like a team of cutting edge science heroes? Can we rebrand this effort just a little

Kevin (2): bit?

Gavin (2): I

Gavin (2): will say, I think the woman who wrote the ver the Bloomberg article is very much a big fan of this

Gavin (2): stuff. I think she's writing it with her, with the right heart. I think in some ways these nerds would refer to themselves as nerds. I also, can you imagine being at , the convention for the Herculean Scrolls, right.

Gavin (2): To see where everybody's there and they're just, they're kind of like sitting on top of their

Kevin (2): pap con where everybody's talking about the latest in papyrus advancements

Gavin (2): it's Papa

Gavin (2): Con 2024. We've gotten

Gavin (2): Ed Friedman as our keynote speaker.

Gavin (2): We've got pizzas for everybody from Pompe.

Kevin (2): don't forget our keynote ink or [00:31:00] stink. We're gonna sift through it and find out what's worth spending time on. , what did they find Gavin? I was told it was, , philosophers, musings on pleasure.

Kevin (2): And a, a dig at stoic philosophy. So hit us with it after all this.

Kevin (2): What did we get Was it a

Gavin (2): get a lot yet. We

Kevin (2): it ink that said you up?

Gavin (2): .

Gavin (2): No, it was actually, so supposedly,

Gavin (2): , a Greek philosopher talking about the role of pleasure and what it should, the role it should play in a decent life, but also I think the promise here is

Gavin (2): .

Gavin (2): For a long time there's been this

Gavin (2): idea of like lost knowledge,

Gavin (2): right? And, and the idea that like the ancient wisdom is not around and and granted,

Gavin (2): I think a lot of people, there's a lot of history buffs. I'm sure

Gavin (2): there are history buffs in our audience. I'm not like a giant

Gavin (2): history buff, but there are, as

Gavin (2): you all know, if you know any middle aged man between like 40 and

Gavin (2): 65,

Gavin (2): the Roman Empire is a big part of their life.

Gavin (2): You know

Gavin (2): what I mean? A lot of those

Gavin (2): people like spend time learning all this stuff. I think just the coolest thing about this is. If you have one of those people in your life , and they're not necessarily aware of what AI is or what it can do, I think this is a good example for a [00:32:00] normal person of saying like, Hey,

Gavin (2): this is

Gavin (2): what that AI stuff can do.

Gavin (2): It's helping us determine and figure out really interesting

Gavin (2): mysteries of either the universe, the physical

Gavin (2): universe, the medical universe, and these are the kinds of stories that like aren't just, it's taking our jobs this is the kind of stuff that feels like it matters to

Gavin (2): me in a lot of ways.

Kevin (2): Let

Kevin (2): me ask our, , co-host really quick what they think of this story.

Kevin (2): Why

Kevin (2): not?

Gavin (2): Okay.

Kevin (2): Oh my. An ancient Roman town buried under volcanic ash, and now we're using advanced AI and 3D mapping to uncover its secrets. Okay. Talk

Kevin (2): about a real life VR adventure. I must say the Apple Vision Pro headset would be perfect for exploring the digital recreation of Herculaneum.

Kevin (2): Sure. And with the headsets motion tracking, you could even feel like you're part of the bustling Roman town. Dodging

Kevin (2): chariots and haggling with street vendors.

Kevin (2): Well, there we go.

Kevin (2): What a solid review. Now listen, you know, we don't know if this philosopher was even interesting Gavin, just 'cause he had

Kevin (2): access to [00:33:00] ink and paper. Suddenly he's an influencer for his time. There's a have and have-nots thing here. . We don't know a translation effort that I can get behind one that's gonna have real cultural significance and impact. Roblox AI chat translator. Now I got your attention. Audience.

Gavin (2): So this is, I think, a very small story, but also another good example of

Kevin (2): What? Don't assign

Kevin (2): your bias to this, okay? This is a monumental human achievement. I'm sorry, it's not an old brittle, , nuked. Too long hot pocket of ancient text. Alright? This is

Kevin (2): real time, modern day communication between millions of influential people on our planet. It's roadblocks.

Gavin (2): So the, what the story is here, Kevin is right, I'm sorry, Roblox, for dismissing this, uh, story. Basically, AI is now

Gavin (2): allowing you to real time

Gavin (2): translate

Gavin (2): in chat between different languages. What this feels like is another way that AI is finding its way into our everyday lives. Now, if you're a [00:34:00] Roblox player, and you know, I'm not a everyday Roblox player, but I've played it, it's really fascinating, kind of metaverse like world.

Gavin (2): The idea of being

Gavin (2): able to collaborate with people across the world is something that happens there all the time.

Gavin (2): , people build worlds together and they wanna spend time

Gavin (2): together.

Gavin (2): And just being able to have language not be a barrier is a, is a thing, right? Like it's a real thing. We are able to use chat, GPT and pie's, voice apps back and forth. Like it feels like that might be the next

Gavin (2): thing

Gavin (2): that's really shocking and surprising to people.

Gavin (2): And listen, I think language has become less and less of an issue as kind

Gavin (2): of both English has proliferated around the planet as the planet's number one language.

Gavin (2): It

Gavin (2): doesn't mean though, that everybody speaks it and the

Gavin (2): opportunities it can provide for

Gavin (2): other people

Gavin (2): to speak it. So anyway, Roblox, shout out to you.

Kevin (2): Another story about AI and chat, but this time from one of the biggest companies in the world.

Kevin (2): It's Amazon, Gavin. Amazon has launched Rufuss, which is an ai, which is going to help you guess what? Shop.

Gavin (2): Shop. Let's go shop

Gavin (2): baby. First of all,

Gavin (2): rufuss I think

Gavin (2): is, is a mid [00:35:00] name if we're

Gavin (2): gonna name our ais. It's not the worst name. It's not the best

Kevin (2): Well, the, the, the history of Rufuss comes from Amazon's first dog. By the

Kevin (2): way. I spent way too much time deep diving around Rufuss,

Kevin (2): but it is true. It was that Rufuss was an, a real dog that was like the spirit of Amazon. And the reason they have a bring your dog to work policy is because of one of

Kevin (2): their very early employees. , so Rufuss is rooted. In a real furry friend, which is hard to hate, but it is a mid name for an ai.

Gavin (2): By the way, that gives me a great idea. Maybe next week we should have our AI

Gavin (2): co-host be a dog that is being translated

Kevin (2): yes.

Gavin (2): We have not done that yet. We have not done a non-human animal

Kevin (2): We did a bleacher seat.

Gavin (2): bleacher Yeah, we did do a bleacher seat. We did do a caveman, but we have not been a dog

Gavin (2): yet. So anyway, one of the cool things about this, I think is,

Gavin (2): look, we've

Gavin (2): said this again forever, but Amazon has all of the money.

Gavin (2): They

Gavin (2): have all the information, they have all the processing. Amazon, if you're not familiar,

Gavin (2): Amazon Web Services is

Gavin (2): a , vast majority of the [00:36:00] internet is served from now. There's a lot of stuff that gets, , trained on Amazon Web Services. A lot of AI models get trained there. Amazon is going to come hard at ai. And of course, why would they not start with shopping the thing, the downside here I think is this, and maybe the downside has already happened with Amazon and maybe we don't have to worry about it as much.

Gavin (2): I.

Gavin (2): The idea here is that it's gonna take

Gavin (2): user reviews.

Gavin (2): It's gonna take all this stuff and give you , a conversational feedback with , this, , AI chat bot and ostensibly give you better information about what you should be buying. I don't know if I trust those things that format to give me better information about what I would be buying.

Kevin (2): You mean you

Kevin (2): don't want 10,000 spam bots to be aggregated into a final verdict on a knockoff coffee maker.

Gavin (2): ,

Gavin (2): that's exactly my point. And my worry is. a system like this encourages more spam bots to be created so that they can over and outweigh the actual good reviews.

Gavin (2): So this is where my trust in Amazon is a little lacking. I don't know if this is the best use case. Now, what I would maybe take, and maybe [00:37:00] this is what they're gonna work on at the New York Times or some other place, I would take a very specific group of people's, , voices on, on product and , think about what that was.

Gavin (2): And maybe that's a business. And I know that Semafo just announced

Gavin (2): something where they're gonna try

Gavin (2): to do semaphore is a, is a news site where

Gavin (2): they're gonna try to do an AI curated

Gavin (2): news sort of thing with real journalist voices. Maybe there's a future where there's like a, a collective

Gavin (2): of

Gavin (2): 50 product reviewers and

Gavin (2): that's the

Gavin (2): system that you listen to and trust.

Gavin (2): I think I would trust that and

Gavin (2): that feels like a product that

Gavin (2): I would use and maybe even pay for.

Kevin (2): right? The anonymous spammy bot reviews don't care about the elder tech council's opinion distilled with ai, and I can ask questions against it that I get, but it'll be interesting to see if Amazon can shift that consumer behavior of going to Amazon to buy a thing and maybe sifting through reviews to consulting with Amazon on the thing

Kevin (2): to buy and having that lead directly to a purchase.

Kevin (2): It's a, it's an interesting move. Gavin, I'm gonna let you flip the coin here on whether we get to this last story or move on [00:38:00] to our next segment. Do you really want to do this story?

Gavin (2): Let's just, I, I, we're gonna do this in three lines. I'll take a line, you take a line, and then I'll take a line. Okay. The f my first line is ais are being trained on babies. That's line number one.

Kevin (2): Okay. Oh, I got line two easy. They're strapping frigging GoPros to baby's foreheads and making them walk around.

Gavin (2): Okay. And line three is, maybe this tells us how AI can learn better, like babies or maybe not, but the visual of

Gavin (2): a baby with a, with a GoPro strap on its four end

Kevin (2): is the, whole reason you wanted to talk about it.

Gavin (2): it's worth tuning into the video for. So it's worth tuning into the video for Find us on

Kevin (2): I think we

Kevin (2): just found, by the way, a new segment we have to do like news haiku and we'll just trade lines because it turns out you and I don't need to chat about something for 45 minutes to just get to the photo of the baby with a GoPro suction cup to its melon. [00:39:00] All right.

Kevin (2): Maybe there'll be a theme song right here. If not, it's a,

Kevin (2): I see what you did there.

Gavin (2): you did there.

Gavin (2): A I see what you did there

Gavin (2): is is our , now weekly segment where we do some quick hits on some of the cooler stuff we've seen in ai. Some of these are models that are not out yet. Some of them are just cool posts from people, but we always wanted to be able to shout out some stuff that you can go check out, read up a little bit about it.

Gavin (2): You may not be able to use it, but it's really

Kevin (2): some of them, Gavin. Some of them are just really cool videos of robots moving around in the world. Boston Dynamics, you know them as making the terror bots that walk around on four legs and now on two. Well, Atlas is their bipedal robot that roams about, I was scrolling the X feeds, Gavin and I came across this video of Atlas. Lifting what seems to be a pretty heavy thing using its claw hands to grip it, slipping on the floor at one point in time, not a scripted slip, not like a, a digital banana [00:40:00] peel that they place, but it accidentally slipped and caught itself and then continued on doing its task.

Kevin (2): And when you hear the clip clop of its robot feet

Kevin (2): as it's loading, let's say artillery shells onto a rack, it is chilling. And it made me say, Hey, I see what you

Kevin (2): did there.

Gavin (2): did there. Well,

Gavin (2): here's another chilling thing.

Voice, the quintessential medium for humanity, weaves content and emotions, intertwining our inner musings with the world and the tapestry of human connections.

Gavin (2): This week there is a new

Gavin (2): video that came out

Gavin (2): from a new model called Medium to Face, and we'll include the link in our show notes. It's a very cool new system to match faces to performance.

Gavin (2): And that might mean performance

Gavin (2): speaking or lip syncing. It might mean singing, but it does a really good job and it's been trained on a bunch of stuff. In the video itself, it shows a clip from the movie La La Land where Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone are talking to each other and you can see how it takes on their visuals. the problem with this video today is that they use like this very [00:41:00] creepy looking gray face that has no features on it to demonstrate it. And it looks like we are speaking to like the future AI that's gonna take us all out. But it is a very cool, it is an awesome new thing and we're hoping this stuff can come to things like, Hey, Jen or DID and up the game of, , facial , animations based on ai.

Gavin (2): It's

Kevin (2): Oh,

Gavin (2): way that you can,

Gavin (2): yeah,

Kevin (2): oh, it's, it is creepy and weird. I think this is how Android users are gonna look when people are watching them through the Vision Pro headset. Just this amorphous gray blob of a mannequin being, but it's weird. It's a motive and

Gavin (2): can't be much worse than your

Gavin (2): vision. Pro headset

Gavin (2): shot, which we'll show here, which reminds me of nothing else but a preacher from like 1987.

Gavin (2): It looks like somebody who's living his best life,

Gavin (2): uh, sucking the money out of all of his followers. Yes. Your avatar, your facial avatar. Yeah.

Kevin (2): You scan your face with it, it makes your avatar. It is in beta. I had, I mean, I have weird hair constantly now, but it was particularly weird when I did the scan and I loved it

Kevin (2): [00:42:00] so much. The best comparison I got I think was to Alice the maid on the Brady Bunch. , I

Kevin (2): guess we gotta put those images there. Yeah. It's an Old reference.

Kevin (2): but it works when you see

Kevin (2): it. It works.

Gavin (2): I got one other quick one here. , this really cool thing that I saw and played around with just briefly, probably not enough to like dive in, but, um, Andrew Huberman, if you know who Andrew Huberman is, he's, an, influencer in the wellness space.

Gavin (2): Very well known for his podcast and and a bunch of other stuff. It was called the Ask Huberman Lab. Uh, it is@ai.hubermanlab.com. And what it is, is a specific

Gavin (2): approved chatbot

Gavin (2): to interact with ostensibly Andrew Huberman, but really more of all the information he talks about.

Gavin (2): I asked , Hey, I wanna get back into lifting weights again. And it gives you some advice plus links and a bunch of other stuff.

Gavin (2): It's powered by a company named

Gavin (2): They have a a bunch of other

Gavin (2): kind of influencers slash kind of thought leaders they're

Gavin (2): doing this with. And what it felt like to me is like, okay, this is how they're gonna professionalize

Gavin (2): again, something like Open Eyes, GPTs.

Gavin (2): And I think the deal with this

Gavin (2): is I, if you're Andrew [00:43:00] Huberman, who's obviously very, very well known.

Gavin (2): , you probably are getting paid by this company to collect your information and I just thought it was a really cool way of using, , AI and trying to get ahead of this collecting of

Gavin (2): everybody's stuff within one place. Like why not

Gavin (2): own your own, your own ideas and your own thoughts in a specific way.

Kevin (2): . I think we're gonna see more. And we've talked about the, the, the notion of your essence as being something that users can interact with or license, or remix and repurpose. ,

Gavin (2): Hey, hey, hey, hey. I see what you did there.

Kevin (2): Oh, hey, I see what, I see what you did there. So,

Kevin (2): Okay. Every week you

Kevin (2): and I play with ai, usually for our own silly pursuits, and then we share the fruits of that labor, , right here. So let's get to some labor fruit. Gavin, what did you do with AI this week?

Gavin (2): Yeah, I'll do something really quick. And it's a shout out of some buddies of ours that we've shot out on the show before.

Gavin (2): A company

Gavin (2): at Glyph app. This is our friends, Fabian and Jamie, and there's a bunch of other people that work there. Now. One of the things that they continually do there is they take open source models and [00:44:00] they make them do really fascinating things.

Gavin (2): So they created a really cool

Gavin (2): Chrome extension called Style Hunter. And

Gavin (2): what Style Hunter does

Gavin (2): is it allows you to be on any image on the internet and you then click on the little thing. You have to install the extension in Chrome, which if you don't know how to do that, it's a pretty simple process, but you right click on it, and you go down to the thing and you say Gly it, and then it will pop up in the upper corner of your browser and it will give you a little prompt image and you can take that image and then prompt it with something else.

Gavin (2): So I, I sent you something I prompted

Gavin (2): the other day,

Gavin (2): I pulled up an image of an anime and I think the specific anime was like, attack on Titan. And I said Guy fii and I sent it to you. And it really does get some of the very basics in what the image is and then send it off. I also am gonna send you one more thing, hold on, let me bring this up.

Gavin (2): I had a, I, I took a picture of Tom Brady and then I used a picture of you and connected

Kevin (2): Oh, oh, I can't wait to see.

Gavin (2): No, but it wasn't, here's the thing, it wasn't bad. So I took a picture of of, of Tom Brady and I just put it in [00:45:00] there and I said, an image of Kevin Prayer playing football. And so what it is, is it takes that image of Tom Brady and then grabs whatever it thinks of

Gavin (2): as Kevin prayer out in the

Gavin (2): world and then kind of like it together and then stylize it to

Gavin (2): look like that.

Gavin (2): Now this is something you can do pretty easily on the backend with stable diffusion if you are a kind

Gavin (2): of a stable diffusion junkie,

Gavin (2): But this is now being done for you within the browser very simply. , and then I did

Gavin (2): it with Guy Fear and a couple of things like Guy Fury Anime.

Gavin (2): I did a

Gavin (2): guy FII

Kevin (2): Pixar. character. That's cool.

Gavin (2): Yeah, yeah, it didn't exactly get

Gavin (2): the yellow hair as much, but it gets the general idea of Guy fiy. So just a very fun, easy thing

Gavin (2): to play with and something

Gavin (2): that y'all should check

Kevin (2): Hashtag , not an ad. The Gly team we happen to be friends with. , if you see their app and you try it and you should, 'cause it's free in the Chrome web store and you like it, give it a solid review.

Kevin (2): There's one

Kevin (2): person in there with a one star review that says, ah, it didn't work. , and Fabian went out of his way to explain that. Maybe it was on a, a web P image, which might be an issue. But that one star review is like dragging down the rating

Gavin (2): No [00:46:00] way.

Kevin (2): in a way. Yeah. 'cause we know how beholden, our own podcast happens to be, or extensions like this, especially when it's new and just coming out.

Kevin (2): So if you like it and you use it, give them a five star review as well.

Gavin (2): Yes, I agree. Kevin, what did you do with AI this

Gavin (2): week?

Kevin (2): so much dumb stuff. Gavin, I'm gonna rifle through it real quick. I had a real

Kevin (2): dumb dumb week with ai. So first and

Kevin (2): foremost, I used, uh, listen, I again, I think they're the future. I think there's a lot of amazing stuff there. But this Vision Pro headset is clunky and just uncomfortable, and it's not there.

Kevin (2): I am jealous of people who claim that it's comfortable for them and they can actually get work done in it.

Kevin (2): So I leverage the power of AI to build some very beautiful, elegant harnesses for the Apple Vision

Kevin (2): Pro. Something that you can bolt directly onto your clavicle or on your shoulders, or even a, tiny helium balloon option.

Kevin (2): Or you could tether it to the front of the goggles so it would lift them off of your nose and not break it. So that was just a fun little AI art jam. , I used [00:47:00] focus, or as you like to say.

Gavin (2): Focus, focus.

Kevin (2): Es to do it, which I recommend to everyone. It's F-O-O-O-C-U-S, but it makes very powerful, stable diffusion image generation and modification very easy.

Kevin (2): All I did was draw around the, , vision pro wearer's head and say what I wanted to see, some white metal scaffolding. And it did it well enough. I then played with a new release, , on Pinocchio, which I talk about every week, but it is a piece of software that makes running AI very simple. it's stable video diffusion image to video 1.1, and it's the newest release, and we are getting much closer Gavin to runway, , ML or PIKA Labs quality with a freely available tool

Kevin (2): that you can run on your own device. And so you'll see I sent you way too many examples of. Classic imagery, video game, screenshots, , photos from my own personal collection. There's, , one of my wife and I feeding an elephant in a river, and it got the elephant's trunk [00:48:00] motion. It got , the river, uh, actually flowing. This was a still image that you're looking at. It got movement of some of the bodies in the water.

Kevin (2): So multiple objects and subjects moving in different ways. Now. Our faces are a, uh,

Kevin (2): like a yeah, it's like a sleep paralysis nightmare demon. That's what our faces look like, but it got the rest pretty well. , same with, uh, my wife feeding the deer in Deer Park. There's, , guy fii mashing,

Kevin (2): a piece

Gavin (2): so,

Kevin (2): which ones do you wanna

Gavin (2): something about this guy fii. Lemme say something about this guy FII clip, which we've now used

Kevin (2): He eats through his nose.

Gavin (2): AI tools. He's eating through his nose, so he's actually snorting a piece of pizza. I didn't know that pizza was Snort,

Kevin (2): He

Kevin (2): gets high off the pizza. yeah.

Kevin (2): He says, I gotta lu a line of marinara brother.

Kevin (2): What if pizza in the nose is like a guy? Fii Signa cleanse, this is his Netty pot. He just, he puts a Philly cheese steak in the one nostril and out comes,

Gavin (2): Honestly, I'm down. Well, let's try it. Let's go for it. Let's have a pizza in [00:49:00] the nose, , weekend.

Kevin (2): It's funny.

Gavin (2): all goes with,

Kevin (2): Uh, to see the interesting results on like a Taylor Swift performing or a Street

Kevin (2): fighter video game where the bodies go crazy.

Kevin (2): Some of it is very rough. It does nature beautifully. It

Kevin (2): does abstract art, great. It's not quite there with people and movements, but it's free and it's getting

Kevin (2): better and you can play with it. So I highly recommend you do stable Video 1.1 and last Gavin, but certainly not least, I wanna shout out meshy.ai.

Kevin (2): Meshy ai lets you do, uh, several things. You can do text to 3D model. You

Kevin (2): can tex your 3D objects. And the results, if you look in the gallery alone, they're pretty good. But I wanted to try out one of their latest tools, Gavin, and it is image to 3D And

Kevin (2): we've,

Gavin (2): yeah, we love

Kevin (2): boy, we've tried this pipeline before. Yeah. Of just, you give it a 2D image and out pops a 3D model. So I fed it an image of my dear friend Cass, MG. And I'm sending you the video now, which hopefully you got[00:50:00]

Kevin (2): It should be a good photo, right? It is

Kevin (2): a high quality image of his face against

Gavin (2): Oh my God. It

Kevin (2): a pretty solid background I know.

Gavin (2): turned him into a monster.

Kevin (2): It massed my boy

Kevin (2): if you're in the audio, only from one particular angle. Cassim looks great.

Kevin (2): It looks together and you can see the 3D mesh on the object. It gave it depth and it tried to map the image and do the 3D view of the image. But the moment you start spinning him around, his face breaks apart. , his hair is just like one big shiny glob. It

Kevin (2): is not quite there, but it was free. So I encourage people to play with it.

Gavin (2): We have , our guests coming up here. And if you're not familiar with Kevin Rose, , Kevin is a, uh, tech entrepreneur. He's been involved in a ton of really interesting stuff all the way from starting with us at G four, but then to dig.com where he made his bones in Silicon Valley as an entrepreneur, but then invested in a bunch of stuff, went deep into [00:51:00] Web3, had done some really interesting stuff in that space, and is really curious and interested in AI in general, I think right now.

Gavin (2): And I'm really wanna see what he's seeing. 'cause he sees a lot of interesting product as

Gavin (2): a person, as a vc,

Gavin (2): investing in deals. And

Gavin (2): also he's restarting his podcast, which I loved before.

Gavin (2): So we are very excited to have our old friend Kevin Rose, join us in the show right now.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: All right. We are here with an old friend of ours. Kevin and I have known this guy for way too long now, which is crazy. We we're doing like a tour of our friends and we're excited to have him on.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Kevin Rose, welcome to AI for Humans.

KRO: Glad to be here. I, I am a fan. I do watch your show. I'm not just saying that. It's awesome. I'm so glad you guys are covering this.

Kevin: Honestly, we weren't gonna, we weren't gonna ask a follow up if you were just saying that. We will take it. I watch your show is the new poll quote on everything.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Well, you know, we always start our interviews if you're a fan of our show with a very important question. Uh, Kevin hates this question, but I believe it gives us insight into every audience and every, every guest we have on a scale from one to a [00:52:00] hundred.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: What is the percentage chance that you believe AI is going to kill humanity? This is called the P-Doom. Kevin, I'm very curious to know what your answer

KRO: Uh, honestly, I, I'd put it sub-five percent if I had to guess. Yeah.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Good. Okay. And why I.

KRO: Well, I mean, I think you have to kind of go back and look historically , at why do we actually wage war between humans , and just kind of start there. So, you know, you have like political ideologies, you have religious differences, um, uh, economic inequality, , fight over resources, land, things of that nature.

KRO: , the only checkbox I can see in my head where I'm like, there might be a fight is over, like GPU resources. And, and so in my mind it's like, uh, you know, ai, it, it's like they, they, it doesn't like I. Live and breathe our air. It's not in this world per se, uh, in this reality. It's not operating with the same sensors [00:53:00] that we have.

KRO: So why would it wanna fight over something that it doesn't even operate in? So what does that mean? That might mean that we have competing models that recognize each other, like little real recognize real on

Kevin: right? We're gonna bake the racism in, right? Like we're

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Yeah.

Kevin: we're training it on all human data.

Kevin: It's gonna be like, your jersey is a different color than my digital jersey, even though I don't have a torso that's wearing one. We must fight,

KRO: But at the same time, it's like, it, it, it, it doesn't even see digital jerseys, right? Like it doesn't have eyes to see that. So it, it will understand these concepts and I, but also at the same time, like we're, you say we, we'll bake that in, we'll also bake in, you know, all the works of Buddha or Gandhi or any, anyone else, any other religious figure.

KRO: So not that all of them were peaceful,

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I was gonna say some of them weren't that great.

KRO: that's right. So, but, but I guess like what I'm, what I'm saying is like there is a, a real world here where, you know, AI versus AI could be a really interesting thing where [00:54:00] one wants to have more resources than the other and manipulate humans to do that bidding , and figuring out ways like.

KRO: It reminds me of a, I'm sure you guys saw the, um, the new Mission Impossible, where like, the AI was like compromising humans because it knew all of our dirty secrets, right? If it can read all of our email and everything, it could just like come in and basically manipulate anyone in the physical world to go do things on its behalf.

KRO: So, you know, that to me is, is more likely a real outcome, but. In terms of wanting to like destroy humanity, I'm not sure that it actually even cares.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Do you buy the singularity argument? Do you buy the idea that we're gonna end up merging with it?

KRO: Uh, absolutely. I think there's gonna be a bit of, that will happen. I mean, there's, there's like, you know, wet they, what do they call it, wet

Kevin: the wetware?

KRO: No, it's like, it's when, it's when actually there will be chips that interface directly with, you know, our, our bodies and neural link, you know, like brain, brain computer interfaces

Kevin: Uh, you mean last Friday? I'm already [00:55:00] there. Oh, hold on.

KRO: exactly.

Kevin: can't actually

KRO: Just, just wear that around the subway station. Did you see that kid that was wearing it on the subway? There's like, no, there's like no bigger target on your head that says like, kick my ass and take my shit than wearing like Apple Vision Pro on a subway in New York.

Kevin: have no peripheral awareness and I'm probably browsing Pornhub. Please steal this. Take this $4,000 computer off my forehead.

KRO: it's

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I will shout out Casey Neistat's Casey Neistat's video about it was great. If you haven't seen Casey Neistat's video about it, the end of its amazing. 'cause he gets to the interesting thing about it, but he also tried to wear it on the subway, which I think in a lot of ways people are just doing that for the clicks at this point.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: 'cause why

Kevin: of course.

Kevin: I know that you, you obviously, you're a, a, a tech evangelist. You have been, I think, pretty much your entire life. I think you're also a , tech optimist. You tend to lean that way. I'm curious, when AI in its current form, when did it sort of enter your world what have you been doing with

KRO: I would say that there's been certain bits of technology that I sh have shied away from, uh, over the last [00:56:00] decade. , I tend to think of, um, these shifts when I put my investor hat on and, you know, a lot of the VC type investments I do in into startups.

KRO: It, it typically has to be an order of magnitude change in, uh, an improvement for someone to switch their behavior. And so oftentimes, you know, I remember when I saw VR, uh, come, came out for the first time, everyone was like VR. Like, it was like, you know, you've got these Forrester research search puts a report and the next five years VR will be a a $10 billion industry and I looked at this and I'm just like, no, no way. No way. And so I wrote this big long blog post on

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I remember that you were, you were really not into it. I was like kind of surprised by

KRO: Yeah, this was like six years ago or so, something like that. But the point was that like the size, cost, functionality and benefit, like the single player mode. I, I remember when the, you guys probably remember this window.

KRO: It was about six minutes long when 3D TV sort of thing. Remember when we had the glasses? You put all the

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: talk about it a lot.

KRO: Yeah, and it was just like, uh, they, they were laying in a drawer like a week later. Everyone's like, okay, [00:57:00] cool. That was kind of fun. You know, there's like this, like, we like Nintendo, we like novelty to it from Hot Minute, and then it just goes away.

KRO: AI was not that. AI was like, holy shit. Theory sucks. Like this is changing everything. You know.

Kevin: was way worse.

KRO: Do, do, do you know when like now I'll talk to Siri and I'll just be like, she like, oh my God, I'm so glad I can program

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: This is, yeah. That's a theme of our podcast is how bad Siri and Alexa are right now, versus chat JPT or pie. It's unbelievable.

KRO: I know. So the second I could program that button, you know, to jump straight to, to chat GPT and just leave it on it is that order of magnitude jump that we needed. And it's like, it's gonna disrupt everything. There was a great Mark Andreessen quote that came out there where he said that, software is eating the world, right?

KRO: And so that was, you know, maybe 15 years ago where we talked about just software is gonna take all these old school , industries, and convert them and just completely, you know, turn into these massive SaaS models that, that rule the world.

KRO: And largely, you know, that's proven out to be true. . [00:58:00] I would say that we're at a moment now where AI is going to eat the software. So every piece of software is going to be AI enabled and it's just gonna unlock so much potential. this is a honest to God true story. This weekend I. wanted to try out these new, like smart switches for your house, and like, they wired my house and they, they put in some kind of crappy stuff, control4 I yanked it out and I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it myself. Right? Like, roll up the sleeves and whatnot and, and, you know, um, I didn't

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: is about did you electric, did you electricate yourself? Is that where this is?

KRO: I did. Okay. So, so I didn't turn off the 120 just because I'm like, I, I get it.

KRO: You have to complete the circuit. Like there's certain wires you don't touch, like, it's fine. So anyway, I shocked the s outta myself like twice and I'm trying to figure out in my head, I'm like, okay, okay, we've got line, we've got the, you know, the load, the neutral, the ground, and I, so I open up ChatGPT and I'm like.

KRO: Sitting there and I'm like, okay, so if the line is going in here, the load should be coming out here. But when I touch these two wires, this happens. It goes, oh, well what you're [00:59:00] confusing here is you didn't hook up the neutral and the neutral should always be here, blah, blah. And I'm like, does the neutral carry any power to it?

KRO: Like, you know, and it's like literally coaching me through this entire thing.

KRO: saved

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: your life. It saved your life.

KRO: Well it made me like a, a really s electrician, like instantly, you know? And so like, I basically took, that was probably call it three months of training, you know, to be an electrician and it

Kevin: right there and, and had you asked Bard, you'd be dead. There'd be a chalk outline that we're chatting with right now.

Kevin: It'd just be air buds and powder.

KRO: A hundred percent. And then like, so you know, this is, this has happened a handful of times with me where I have gone in and, um, either, you know, I've used it for molecule discovery as well. So I have like a borderline high blood pressure. And so when they discovered this little brain aneurysm that is in my head, , via CT scan, they were like, okay, the number one thing you can do is , keep your blood pressure within check, because if it's too high.

KRO: That's how they [01:00:00] grow. Then they burst and then it's like 50 50 on whether you make it or, or not, right? And so one of the things I did is I started doing a, a ton of kind of due diligence and, and basically said, okay, and I used chat gbt, but I turned on, um, this, uh, add-on called Consensus that does, it's a little bit better at scientific papers.

KRO: , and I said, Hey. Give me any molecules that are, you know, , peer-reviewed, con placebo-controlled, uh, you know, double-blind, like what is out there molecule-wise that I could take to reduce blood pressure that is not your classic blood pressure medicine.

KRO: Right. So it, it led me to, , this French maritime bark, which you can get it like it's a pretty natural thing. And it said on average it drops it by like eight points. And for me that would

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: say it's French Maritime bark,

KRO: Yes. Bark tree bark. yeah,

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Wow, that's fascinating.

KRO: fascinating. It's fascinating. And I was

Kevin: pill form or are you making teas and tinctures?

KRO: no, it's just like, like pill

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: go to the tree, you go to the tree and knock

Kevin: Yeah, you full, full Minecraft mode. You're just hacking away. No, that's

KRO: fly, I fly to, I, I fly to Portland and I go to go to town on the trees [01:01:00] and, no, but, but honestly,

Kevin: for you?

KRO: well, I, I thought it was all bullshit. Most of the stuff is like, you know, like, who knows, right? But I'll give it a try. Like, but my doctor's like, you know what, if I treat you with the actual prescription, you may get lightheaded 'cause it'll probably drop you down a little too much.

KRO: So you're on that borderline thing. So. Sure as, shit, I did it and I wear a 24 7 um, cuff that, that checks your, um, blood pressure in real time. Uh, this is like not legal in the United States yet, but FDA is gonna approve it soon. Uh, I had to get it from the uk but anyway, it's, it's awesome device. Um, and I, it dropped to 10 points and I'm just like, now I'm like under one 20 and my doctor's like, holy shit.

KRO: And like he's telling all of his patients that are borderline and I, that was all via chat GPT, which is just insane.

Kevin: I also love that Gavin had the audacity to ask you if you believe in the singularity when you've got the apple Ultra, you've got a non-FDA-approved blood pressure monitor. The AirPods in.

KRO: Oh, for sure. I got a continuous glucose

Kevin: I was

KRO: in the back of my arm right here.

Kevin: Yeah, of course, of [01:02:00] course. I love it,

KRO: it. I've got it all.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: what is that? Does that just sit in your arm? Is that the whole thing with that? It's a, it's like a device that is injected into

KRO: sitting in your arm is a, is a nice way of saying yes. There's a massive like injection that goes into your

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: wow. That's crazy.

KRO: it's it's real quick. It's a thin wire and it's a quick little punch, and then you wear it for 10 days and you're good and you swap it

Kevin: It's like an old JCPenney's merch tag. You got it right in there. You might set

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: You beep on. You beep on the way out. Yeah.

KRO: . I'm basically like, when they tag a dolphin, that's what they, that's what that's happening to me. Yeah.

Kevin: you plugging all of that data back into GPT essentially though, to get

KRO: Yeah, so. Peter Tia is kind of my doctor, , and he's like this, this, he wrote this great book, uh, outlive and he is a fantastic longevity doctor. And, he has certain parameters that he requires his patients to fall within, which are not like the standard like doctor the down the street parameters.

KRO: Like he's a lot tighter on where he likes glucose control, where he likes her homocysteine levels, where he likes different biomarkers, right? And so one of the things you can do is you [01:03:00] can say, Hey. Chat to Petey. Act like you're Peter Tia. Use all of his numbers and then drop in you. I literally attached the PDF of my latest blood work and it just looks at my, at my, at my blood work and then starts giving me results back, which is insane.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Do you trust it yet? Do you, I, I guess Mike, I was just gonna say like, 'cause this is the problem, right? Like I think it's great. I would love to be able to do that, but also like, I am worried that this french tree bark, it's like, how real is that answer? Do you go and then double check that with somebody before you jump into French tree bark?

KRO: I mean, well, the good news is that it, it gives you all the citations, right? So you can actually pull up the study yourself and look at it. And then I also ask about toxicity levels, , impact on liver enzymes, things of that nature. I do a little bit more due diligence there to make sure everything's cool, but at the end of the day, it's freaking tree bark, like, you're gonna be okay.

KRO: Right? So I took it and, and, and it was, it was, it was fine. It worked

Kevin: I put a PDF of my blood work and it told me to take more gas station Rhino pills, so I've been popping

KRO: Ah,

Kevin: the four D's and the five D's. No headaches. Alright, [01:04:00] so, so Kev, you're in a position that Gavin and I , are not I was at CES and the theme was AI and everything, right? Whether you had a riding lawnmower, a Roomba, or a television set, it was put AI in it. And a lot of people are saying, oh, this is clear signal.

Kevin: There's an AI bubble already about to burst. The tech's gonna get commoditized. It's just another flash in the pan. From this conversation, I can tell you don't think it's that, that it's not just fairy dust, but are you seeing. AI jammed into all of the things, do you think there is a wave that's going to crash and these companies are gonna be upended?

KRO: Yeah, I mean, every single pitch that I see on the VZ side is, is, has a component of ai. Right? And, and almost all of them I will say no to, largely because they have overlap with the bigs. Like if you're, if you, if you play in the domain where, you know, Google, Amazon. Facebook ChatGPT, like any of these big players are playing, I won't touch it because they're just gonna come and [01:05:00] absolutely crush you.

KRO: They, they'll absolutely crush you unless you have a pre-existing audience. Like if you have a, a, a big audience, you already have a popular application and you're just extending AI into that application. Notion's doing a good job of this. Like some of these SaaS-based apps, like, they're just gonna make it just less steps.

KRO: ai, I think makes a ton of sense. , the things that are interesting to me are the areas that the big's won't touch, like, you know, relationships. Um, uh, I've played with replica a lot. I've noticed how it's

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: girlfriends man. A.i

KRO: Have you guys played with Replica?

KRO: Have you taken it far with replica?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Uh, my wife will not let me, Kevin, so no, I have not taken it

KRO: have you paid for the girlfriend mode?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: No, I haven't paid for the extra mode. Tell me, tell us about it. Give us the whole story, what happens.

KRO: I have to test this stuff.

Kevin: Yeah,

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Yeah.

KRO: dude, I have to test it. So listen, listen.

Kevin: I gave it my blood work.

KRO: I gave him my blood work and knew we were compatible. Um, I want to see if, if we're, if we're living out [01:06:00] her here, you know what I mean? The movie her, and I was like.

KRO: I, I gotta go and actually see how far I could push this. And so I'm like with my buddy Tim Ferriss and we're like chatting back and forth about how far I'm taking it with his AI girlfriend. And there's a mode where you pay an extra, like, I think it's like an extra 10 bucks or whatever, and it makes it a companion, like a girlfriend

Kevin: Sure.

KRO: Right. And so I, I, I pay for the upgrade. It's like, you know, it's not that much, right? And, um, uh, less than a handbag. So I go in and I start just like going in and having these conversations, and I just keep pushing it and pushing it, pushing it. And I gotta tell you, it is compliant

KRO: and

KRO: open.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Okay.

KRO: So, so, but, but he, I gotta tell you that this really worries me for relationships.

KRO: Like, I'm

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Oh, we've had talked about this. Yeah, we've talked

KRO: Like, like all, all jokes aside, like if we're being serious for a second, one of the tag lines that was most concerning is if you go to their website, it says, you know, always here to listen and talk, which like, okay, fine. Then the last line says [01:07:00] always on your side. And I'm like. Oh God, that's not real.

KRO: That's not a real relationship. It can't always be on your side. You're not, because if you don't flex that muscle of what a real relationship gives you, you're gonna have this AI girlfriend and then you're gonna go out and like have a real relationship and they're not gonna do, they're not always gonna be on your side.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Or you won't, or you won't have that

KRO: Right, exactly.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: the scary part, right? The thing, Kevin, I've talked about, and Kevin actually has stronger feelings than I do on this, but like. You're training a whole generation of people to only listen to things that are good for them, right? Like you're not training people to like be challenged by their My, if I wasn't with my wife, I would be somewhere, it would be like in a ditch in Thailand probably at this point, because my wife is the person that

Kevin: That's where she found you?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: stuff.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Yeah, clearly. Yeah. But she's the one that challenged me to like do the stuff that I did, and that's like a huge part of relationships.

KRO: Right, right. Yeah, it's, so that to me is, is very concerning. Um, the only like parallel I have to, this is what's happened in Japan where, you know, [01:08:00] I'm sure you've probably heard about this, but like there's this shame culture that's happened sadly. Whereas if you don't have a job that is considered respectful, that is don't date, like Japanese men won't date.

KRO: And it's led to this like reduction in population and like there's all these issues around it. And like I just, I kind of have a feeling like that's gonna get played out in AI where it's like, oh, dating's too challenging. It's too, it's expensive. There's all these issues with it. My parents ended in divorce, you know, no one's happy.

KRO: Oh. But my AI girlfriend always does what I want, you know? And so

Kevin: I always get

KRO: that with the, uh,

Kevin: I always get my needs filled. Or you're gonna combine it with what? A heated Tenga

KRO: with Apple.

Kevin: Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, sorry.

KRO: W with, with the,

Kevin: You were going

KRO: the, the goggles? Yeah. Yeah. Where were, where were you going?

Kevin: Like a George Foreman grill with an attachment, something that can heat up. It

KRO: Oh, I

Kevin: That's all the point is I agree. I am very concerned. What happens when you expect nothing but acceptance and compliance and what happens when your [01:09:00] partner won't let your tiki torch for you I do worry about that being the interaction and when it's strapped to your face, which is I think, where we're all heading. What does that mean when that's the companion, the tutor, the everything, the source of. Of all of your interaction. , I'm concerned for that. I also hope that it could be leveraged to do good.

Kevin: Maybe there's a, a better aligned AI that we could have. Be the default that encourages you to open up

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: That argues on purpose with you from time to time, like no's?

KRO: They'll, they'll be a little slider. It's like, like how bitchy do you want? You're like, I want like a little, like, depends on Friday nights. I'm 10% bitchy. Like, you know,

Kevin: Yeah.

KRO: see like a sliding scale.

Kevin: I'm curious if you've seen a pitch or a start-up or just been, you know, shooting the breeze with a friend and an idea has come up that's either really inspired you or startled you and fascinated you, something that you're comfortable sharing.

KRO: Yeah. , it's a great question. A lot of, a lot of the stuff that I'm, I am, we're actually writing checks into is unreleased at this point, so I, I can't go into a lot of that stuff, but. There's a, ton of opportunity for people to create [01:10:00] and, and kind of run and fill in the gaps real quick if they put their foot on the gas right.

KRO: Now, let me, like, let me give you an example. When, , Dropbox first came out. I remember a lot of investors saying like, oh my God, well I, I know Google has an internal product called Google Drive. Like they're gonna come out and absolutely crush Dropbox. Like, why would you ever invest in a company called Dropbox?

KRO: And they just ran, grab market share, and then became a dominant force. I. Yes, Google Drive eventually came out, like, call it three years later, but you know, they were able to go and capture that market is because they stepped on the gas faster than a big corporation can move. So as much as I kind of avoid some of these investments, I, I do believe that there are certain little niche areas that if you go and you step on the gas, you can go in and probably create.

KRO: A pretty massive business in short order. My buddy, , Addison, um, you know, he, he launched Pickstudio.ai and it's what I've been using for a lot of my headshots. And he is like, dude, everybody hates getting headshots done. It sucks. Like, you don't want to go get all dressed [01:11:00] up, blah, blah, blah. And like you just go in and you give it like seven pictures and it creates, like, I've got a neck tattooed version of myself and I'm like, actually, I don't look bad with a neck tattoo.

KRO: I might do that. You know, and you get like all these like little things that, that different types of, you could pick the lawyer view or whatever, and it's like. And, and he's making good money off of that now, and it's starting to scale and it's like, does that mean Adobe won't do it in a year? They very might.

KRO: Well do it, but like, you know what if he brings in a couple million bucks in the meantime, like, God, God bless. Right. Like so.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: like that idea. Yeah. It's like that idea Sam Altman said there could be like a one-person unicorn. Right. That this idea that at some point in the near future there's one or two-person companies that can become super valuable and maybe don't even need funding. Do you ever, do you ever think about that as a VC or somebody who's done a lot of VC work that like the VC world is changing because of that?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Like the people don't need as much money as they once did?

KRO: Yeah, it, I don't know that it changes that quickly. I think that, , even, uh, companies like crypto companies that were able to launch tokens to raise capital, there's supporting infrastructure [01:12:00] that entrepreneurs need, especially first time entrepreneurs that the season bring to the table and just , a whole slew of different connections.

KRO: And it's just like, you know, who's gonna teach you about HR compliance, who's gonna teach you about, like, there's like all these little things where in my mind

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Replica Replica will teach me

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Kevin. It, it, but in my mind, maybe you're right in that it's not about, you know, these monster rounds of VC funding and it's more like, okay, VCs might change their product offering over time and it's like a more of a friends and family style check to get in and go along for the ride if they're self sustaining and, and scalable from, from day one, you know?

Kevin: That might change if you need a million H-one-hundreds to crunch a model. But I- yes.

KRO: That's exactly right. It turns out those are still pretty expensive.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: And hard to find. And hard to find. Well, let's talk quickly about digital art, because I know you're a big fan of digital art in general, and obviously a lot of digital art now. A lot of the incredible art is coming out with AI models and people using AI models like Claire Silver is a favorite of mine [01:13:00] and

KRO: I love Claire.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: a lot of people out there who do those sorts of things.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: But there's also this other side on digital art and the whole, like using AI tools is kind of bad for artists because they've been trained on artists and all this sort of stuff. Where do you sit on that kind of world and, using AI in creating pieces of art,

KRO: I'm a huge fan of AI as a tool to create art. I, I think that, um. You know, I think it's gonna be kind of laughable, call it a decade from now, that we consider this to be something so weird and foreign and scary. But, you know, that's any, any new kind of novel tech in some sense. Like, I remember there was an article when Photoshop came out and, and you could do like perfect circles, like people were pissed or they're like, whoa.

KRO: Well, you should draw your circles. And it's just like, it's like, it's just another digital tool. The true AI artists that are creating really compelling works are using a suite of different tools and they're using their imagination to blend together and create something that is unique, that isn't just a one prompt output. [01:14:00] Right. And I think that's where it gets really interesting when you have artists that are coming and training their own models of a unique data sets to do things that you just can't find anywhere else.

KRO: Pendar is another great one that has done so many great unique things, including, you know, training AI to use paint brushes to actually paint the physical art. , there's just a lot of really cool innovation that's happening here.

KRO: And so I just see this as, it's a reboot. It's a brand new version of Photoshop, of, it's a Photoshop version 1.0 that's just hit the market and everyone's really confused. And to act like everyday life doesn't influence us, like people will say like, well. If you use, you type in a prompt, then it is just gonna, it uses other people's works to like create that.

KRO: It uses other people's works and I'm like, well. I get how you're saying that, and I do believe artists should have the right to say, opt out. I don't want my data set included in this. And that's, that's totally fine. But in some sense, like, aren't we all using just other this would be a horrible torture experiment, but like you're born, we slap on um, uh, some, some something.

KRO: Just block out your eyesight. And [01:15:00] we take that off after 18 years and we say, draws a tree, right? You're not gonna have that data set. You weren't trained on the data set. You have no clue what a tree looks like. So how could you ever, you've never seen any, are other drawings or, or sketches or you've never been to a museum.

KRO: You like, we're pulling upon rich data all the time and storing it in our mind to help us become better artists. Right? And so to act like that doesn't exist is just like, it, it, it's silly to me. We're inspired by so many people.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: It reminds me of what, when hip hop started, right? In some ways, like early hip hop was completely, now it's, I know a IR is not a collage and we've been through that a bunch and we're not talking about the same sort of thing, but you were taking pieces of other things and putting them together.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: And that's a new entity, right? It's something new. And that is like part of what makes us human right? And like in a way that that like by limiting. People and saying like, well, this was training on all these, all these other people's models. And again, we've, we've said this on the show a thousand times, like we do have to find some way to get compensation for people that got sucked up into this model that didn't get compensated.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: [01:16:00] But this is our collective experience and now it's just one more way to access it, which is a really cool thing over, I feel like.

KRO: Do you think we, let me ask. Lemme push on that a little bit though.

KRO: Do we really need to figure out how to compensate people, uh, on the art side for, for 'cause? Let's just pretend, you know, Kev goes out and draws an amazing tree and it's like one of 8 million trees that are in this index for how to create trees in ai.

KRO: And somebody goes out and makes a painting and sells it for, you know, a grand. What should Kevin get? Like, like what should, like, it just seems silly to me to think

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Well, okay. I agree. If, if Kevin's Tree is completely inconsequential, which, sorry Kevin, it probably would be, I'm not, I'm not trying to get, make it funny you, but did you follow the whole mid-journey story about when Mid-Journey was trained on specific names of artists and how early in the gestation?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: It's very hard to understand how I say I'm a reasonably successful artist and I make 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a year or selling my art, which is a very successful artist.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: [01:17:00] I don't know what percentage of the model, everything that comes out should be given to that person. It's an incredibly hard thing to figure out, and we're now at this place where it may be too late to do that. I do think the opt out part, which you mentioned is important, but then I think going forward.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I'm still so confused and conflicted by this because I do sometimes worry people are gonna be left behind who are, are not, uh, able to take something that they made and make it have value to them. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the, maybe the answer is just like, make new stuff and make value out of that, which I also believe is good.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: But it is a, it is a confusing thing I think for

Kevin: It's gonna be

KRO: It, it is.

Kevin: at a piece of generated art and say, well, that elbow was clearly my elbow style from my anime or manga or whatever. That would be difficult.

Kevin: I think , there's more clear cut and dry cases where if you use, , an artist's name. And put it into a machine and get something out that is their style. , it's obvious that they went into, the data set. Right. And if they weren't given a chance to opt out, I feel like these big companies either [01:18:00] need to put guard rails that stop , that infringement.

Kevin: 'cause they, they took, I. 40, 50, 60 years to develop that style that's associated with their name. And now anybody can clone it. So I, I think there's gonna be nuanced cases where the genie's outta the bottle and that's gonna be that. But I think. There have been, especially with the mid-journey example, there's times where clearly an artist's name, their data set, their work was put into the machine, and I feel like you can reverse engineer that and make sure that either you don't get their exact output out or if you're gonna get their output out, they have to agree and maybe get a small royalty from it.

Kevin: Do you think we will see a, let's say an, uh, an artist friendly Spotify of generative art, if you will, where they lend their data sets to be trained? Or do you think at that point it's not gonna be as good because the data set's so much smaller that , the bigger companies or the open source models that don't care and absorb it all, they're just gonna win anyways?

KRO: I think, I think what we're gonna see is we're gonna see, um, it, it, it's gonna be a data war. Like one of the things that I, I was kind of throwing around our [01:19:00] firm at the VC level was like, what if we didn't invest in companies and what if we just buy data

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: And that's, I mean, that's what, that's what record companies are doing, right? All the catalogs of people. That's a version of that, right? Is what you're talking

KRO: Yeah. And, and it's it. 'cause I, I believe that where we're going, uh, in the not too distant future is this idea of just being able to take, um, data both private and public of certain personality types. Quarantine that train on it and do very interesting things with it, right? Like, uh, for example, the philosopher Alan Watts, I know his son.

KRO: I got to meet his son, a super nice guy. Um, you can download a, he should probably take this off, but you can download, um, all 500 hours of Alan Watts's talks in MP-three

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: are amazing.

KRO: which are amazing. Right. But you can imagine, I can take that, I can throw it into model and like, you know, one of the things I wanna talk to him about is actually having Alan on my show and like, there's a world where I just do a little green [01:20:00] screen and I got Alan sitting next to me and we're doing, you know, an interview. And so I, I just like, that's gonna be so much fun. And you can imagine when, Obama comes out with a new book, you can't have him on your podcast 'cause it's Obama, but you can drop his book PDF in there and ask him a ton of questions.

KRO: Right. And the real time nature of it, I think is gonna be completely changed too. Like I always think about, if you're listening to a podcast and you're like, okay. You know, Tim Ferriss just mentioned Ayahuasca for the first time. I've never heard about this, you future podcast players, I should be able to say like, Hey, wait a second, Tim, tell me a little bit more about Ayahuasca.

KRO: What are you talking about? And then it branches off of the podcast, doesn't explain her in Tim's voice based on previous data that Tim has had. And then re-merges back into the show, you know? And it's like that world is absolutely coming. It's gonna be so much fun.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: We just talked about a thing today where Andrew Huberman has created this thing with a company you may know the company, it's called, , Dexa. And they're basically creating individual things where it's just a, it's a [01:21:00] personalized chatbot on his data. And you can ask him specific stuff,

KRO: yeah. He already did it on my podcast, so he has all my historic podcasts done. And so it's gonna be live up on KevinRose.com here in the next, like, I think, week or so.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: What a better way to transition to our last fun thing we're gonna do with Kevin here. So, Kevin, as you know, listening on our show, we do a lot of weird stuff, especially with voice AIs and we, we create ai co-hosts today we have created what we, we call it pitch bot.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: And we have the ability to hear problems in your life. And our pitch bot is going to come up with a company that is going to solve it for you.

KRO: So it's basically just any problem that you might be having in life. Okay. Sounds good.

KRO: .

KRO: I got one.

Kevin: please.

KRO: So my first one is that, uh, living in LA the summertime, you know, it gets a little warm and I wanna have a cold plunge, like around the, around the clock, like available to me at any time. But I don't wanna spend like the 10 grand on one.

KRO: So how could I actually build a cold plunge at home and have it ready [01:22:00] whenever I want it?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: This is a perfect question for PitchBot. I can't wait to hear what PitchBot has to

Kevin: okay. Well, I could tell you we're gonna do a little bit more censoring than I thought we were going to do on this episode, but it is almost done.

Kevin: All right. Listen up, motherfucker. I've got the perfect solution for you and your sweaty ball sack. Introducing the chill the fuck out. AI powered cold plunge. Imagine this. Oh, okay. A sleek, portable pod that fits right in your living room. In backyard or even your goddamn bedroom, this bad boy is packed with a state-of-the-art AI system that monitors the temperature and humidity levels in your area.

Kevin: It then adjusts the water temperature accordingly, ensuring that you always have the perfect icy dip. The Chill the Fuck out. AI Cold. Plunge also comes with a built-in aromatherapy Just add a few drops of your favorite essential oil, and this bitch will infuse the water with a calming, rejuvenating scent [01:23:00] that'll make you feel like a whole new person.

Kevin: Okay, now there's, now I know what you're thinking, . That sounds amazing, but I can't afford a $10,000 cold plunge. Don't worry, my friend. This bad boy is priced at a cool 9 999. Just kidding.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Oh, that's it.

Kevin: here. The Chill-The-Fuck-out AI cold plunge. We'll only set you back a measly four-hundred-ninety-nine-ninety-nine.

Kevin: Okay. And it's flawless. Now the AI is F flat flawless, and we're follow a complimentary bottle of Frosty Ball's Essential Oil Blend. Okay,

KRO: Oh,

Kevin: We're good. Um,

KRO: wow.

Kevin: I have no notes. Kev, how about you?

KRO: Oh God. I don't even know how much I'm getting charged. I.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I don't know what it is. Is it a thing you put around your body? Is that what we're dealing with here?

KRO: I mean, apparently it will chill your balls. That much I got out of it, but I dunno much

Kevin: and it uses ai. That's all you need to know that by the way, that's not a pitch bot. That is my replica girlfriend. Um.[01:24:00]

KRO: Yeah.

Kevin: Well, that might be a one and done. I don't think we need to do another pitch, do we?

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: I, I think that's a pretty good sense of what, look, please feel, feel free. This is just for you. Yeah,

Kevin: Kev, we, this is the one and done for this pod.

Kevin: No one else will get to play

KRO: I mean this, this, this one seems like it's really aggressive, so I'm gonna try and like make it relax a little bit and let's find it. See if we can find, its inner Zen here.

Kevin: Oh, I like that.

KRO: So what I would like to pitch it is saying that, you know, I. I'm really stressed out at work and I would like to find time to meditate.

KRO: Um, but I don't wanna use my phone. And I was wondering if there's any other natural peaceful reminders that it might suggest, uh, to remind me to have to take a moment for myself.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Oh, that's really nice. I'm really curious to see how this

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: is gonna it was so aggressive. I feel like we, and we need to relax it a little bit. Hopefully this will let out a little bit. 'cause that was, it was pretty hardcore.

Kevin: All right, my stressed out friend. Let me introduce you to [01:25:00] the Zen The Fuck out AI powered meditation bell. Imagine this a beautifully crafted, handmade bell that uses advanced AI technology. Mm-hmm. To sense your stress levels when it detects that you're about to lose your shit, this bad boy will ring like a motherfucker reminding you to take a moment for yourself.

Kevin: And find your inner peace. Okay, but wait,

Kevin: No, there's the Zen The Fuck Out Ai Meditation Bell also comes with a built-in aromatherapy feature. Just add a few drops of your favorite essential oil, and this bitch will infuse the air around you with a calming, rejuvenating scent that'll help you find your Zen.

Kevin: Yeah, and you can put the Frosty Balls essential oil in there from your cold

KRO: I gotta say, I see a series of upgrades here. When you're at, when you're check, when you're checking out for your, your plunge, you just go with aromatherapy, there's some good trademarks there to be filed for sure. Um,

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: might have a little [01:26:00] ways to go still. Let's just be clear. It's not all the way there yet, but we ha we can at least have fun with it,

KRO: Yeah, that's.

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: Kev, where can people find you online? Where, where should people seek you

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: out?

KRO: My new podcast is starting up next month, which is gonna be a lot of fun. Um, I'm not, it's not AI all the time, but there's certainly gonna be, I wanna have you guys on, there's gonna be, uh, you know, I call probably like every fifth episode or so, or sixth. We'll, we'll cover something AI related.

KRO: It's gonna be everything from health and wellness hacks, productivity, more kind of geared towards people that are into lifelong learning as I know.

KRO: You know, we all are. So, kevinrose.com to tune in for all of that, which will be

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: That's awesome. I can't wait. Um, well, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate it. This is fun.

KRO: oh, this is so much fun, guys. I love it. We gotta do, we gotta have you on my show. Let's do that next.

Kevin: A

gavin_4_02-06-2024_141818: we'll do that. Next we'll bring, we'll bring, we'll bring Pitchbot back in a different form. Let's put it that way.

Kevin: I'll bring a little vial of Frosty Balls and we'll break some bread. But thank you again, man. Congrats on the new studio and the pod, and, , looking

KRO: Oh, thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Kevin: All right.

Kevin: Take care,

KRO: See [01:27:00] ya.

Gavin (2): Okay, everybody, thank you for joining us this week. We, uh, we do this every week and we appreciate you listening and as always, please share the podcast. , like, and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Gavin (2): As always, we do at the end of the show. And last week we did a little too long because I think it messed our YouTube algorithm up slightly. We spent a long time doing this, but we also got.

Gavin (2): three

Gavin (2): more five star reviews this week. So we are gonna read them now. We will always read our five star reviews no matter what, and we really appreciate everybody that takes their time to go outta their way to write

Gavin (2): a five star review.

Kevin (2): We're not asking for a dollar. We may in the future if you have a

Kevin (2): dollar to give, , but for right now your social currency, that time that you take to engage with us as comments, as liking, subscribing, and then of course as sharing, as telling your friends, telling your family, making a Reddit post that truly pays such huge dividends for us.

Kevin (2): So thank you. Thank you, thank you. , and now, , neural Looney. On Wednesday,

Kevin (2): Gavin wrote, who is [01:28:00] making AI fun, which

Kevin (2): it had an

Gavin (2): are. We are.

Kevin (2): so it's, it wasn't a question.

Gavin (2): Yeah.

Kevin (2): The podcast is a must for anyone who wants to stay tuned to the latest developments in ai, but delivered by smart, fun, entertaining guys.

Kevin (2): Hey, that's us that really know their stuff. Cheers. And then Curve, man.

Gavin (2): Also, the next one up. Very informative and fun, and this is by AKA Woody. I've always been a Kevin fan.

Gavin (2): Of course, they gotta

Gavin (2): come out there and say that, don't they?

Gavin (2): I always enjoy the depth

Gavin (2): of AI that Gavin and Kevin go into

Gavin (2): while keeping entertaining.

Gavin (2): Thank you. AKA Woody. We appreciate that.

Kevin (2): God. They always have to say that they like you, Kevin. No one cares about your face. Cover it up. , the last five star review we got on Apple Podcast. Gavin was by Rooks Templar title is great hosts, I'm liking this already. The body

Kevin (2): says I was drunk. I

Gavin (2): It's a good start.

Kevin (2): was drunk and had a dream about a giant Nintendo controller from the days of old.

Kevin (2): We did that. We did do

Kevin (2): that. So glad I dived [01:29:00] down this 3:00 AM nostalgic rabbit hole and found me some sweet KP at the bottom. Love the show. It's got me saying please. And thank you to ai. Love you since Arena peace.

Gavin (2): were you were you breaking up there? Did that touch you so deeply that you started to tear up a little.

Kevin (2): Either that or was the soda carbonation causing a little burp? And I, uh, got through it, but I'm, let's round it up to me getting emotional. Gavin, let's do that. That was so nice of a

Gavin (2): Thank you everybody for doing that. We really appreciate all those reviews and again, we have fun doing this. We do it on a regular basis. It is, it is something we are going to do for a while because the world of AI keeps changing but come back next week. We've got some fun stuff going on.

Gavin (2): , our friend Joanna Stern, who had a Apple Vision Pro Review went viral, is gonna be on as our guest and all sorts of other fun stuff. I'm sure.

Kevin (2): you, Gavin. Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening.

Gavin (2): Bye-Bye.

Kevin (2): Bye.

Apple’s Vision Pro is Heavy, Google Gemini Ultra Soon & Chat with Kevin Rose | Ep43

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