Apple Intelligence, OpenAI's Sora Has Competition & Much More AI News

EP062 AI4H
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[00:00:00] On today's AI for Humans, Apple is going all in on AI and they are taking open AI along for the ride. We've got new details on Apple Intelligence and surprise, surprise, Elon Musk is big mad about it. Plus, a prompt to Hollywood update, we've got brand new AI video tools that you can use right now.

Including a Chinese Sora competitor that can accurately model noodle slurping. Take that Will Smith. All that and updates on stable diffusion, inflatable robots, and simulated rat brains, we have it all. This is AI for Humans.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody, it is AI for Humans, your weekly guide to the wonderful world of generative AI.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: We are here to demystify the ideas that are happening in the world. We're here to talk about Apple this week, we're here to talk about Blahblahblahblah Videos that are being made that were kind of surprising to us. But first of all, we're going to say hello to Kevin. Kevin, how are you doing this week?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'm well. Mission accomplished. Thank you [00:01:00] for asking, but now I have to ask something. Please dear audience, like and subscribe, share this podcast with a friend. It's the only way we grow and we have been growing and that is thanks to all of your efforts.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So please keep it up. If you haven't clicked the thumb or the bell or engaged in some way, just leave a comment below. Every little action helps us out. So thank you. Thank you.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And we do spend a lot of time in our YouTube comments, probably too much time. So if you hear from us, that is actually us. Also leave us a five star review because at the end of the show, we will read a five star view on Apple podcast, where you can actually type those reviews. But now, Kevin, we need to get into this because it is a big week. It is time for the news! 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: All right, everybody, it was a giant week in AI. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: The largest company in the world dropping what we believe is one of the most mainstream platforms of all AI.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: But Kevin, I also want to talk about some breaking news that came out [00:02:00] just a day or so ago, which is always interesting with these tech things where you see like the big presentation for the mainstream. And then they kind of slide the blog post out underneath it. And what this essentially amounts to is a white paper for Apple intelligence.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: this is on machine learning. apple. com, which again is a deep part of Apple's website that I didn't understand existed before now. But this title of this blog post is Introducing Apple's on device and server foundation models.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And specifically what this is, , it's pretty dense. I will say, if you go to read it, you're going to find your eyes glazing over a little

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: There's a reason they didn't have Craig bouncing around doing parkour on the way to these LLM benchmarks, and they saved it for the nerds later. But this is really interesting information.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So what it gets into is that the two different models, a little bit that they're running. One is a 3 billion parameter on device model. This is the model that's going to run on your phone or on your Mac itself. And then they talked about the larger private [00:03:00] cloud compute model.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: But Kevin, the thing that I thought was really interesting about this is two things. One, it's being compared to very small models like Microsoft's five model and other things in that extent. And just so you know, if you've been listening to this show for a long time, When you think about those models, they kind of compare to GPT 3.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: 5, which was the kind of OG chat GPT model. And so , the first thing I think about before we get into some other stuff that they kind of dropped in this is, do you think when people get this on their iPhones, which we don't know when is going to happen, that's another thing that nobody has a played with this yet, or be heard

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Supposedly September iOS 18 will hit with a lot of these features. And I'm sure there will be developer betas before that, that have access to some of this stuff, but yes, all of this right now is very nebulous. And we're going off of Apple's white paper and basically their word. But with that said, what are we going to say, Gavin, are people going to be underwhelmed when they get

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: what, yeah, what I was going to say is, so my experience with models like GPT, chat, [00:04:00] GPT, OG now are that when you go and ask them things, it's oftentimes not giving you great answers. Right. And I think when we first saw this, I think it was impressive then. And, but now that we've gone to a place where GPT 4. 0 is out to everybody on the chat GPT website, I think people might be kind of shocked when they step back. Now, all of this is going to be coming through Siri in some form or through Apple.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So maybe

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I think Siri being able to do anything will be remarkable, Gavin. It's going to be a magical moment for folks. For basic summarization for looking up information in emails for rewriting things, I think 3.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: 5. Is pretty good. We talk all the time to audiences and our audience is very split. As we know, we have some like diehard AI industry folks, some media, , folks in there as well, and then complete noobs to the industry. I think that for those noobs out there that don't know what an LLM is , or a chat GPT from a Gemini from a who's a what's it, it will still [00:05:00] seem magical when the device in their hand quickly.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: rewrites something or pulls a piece of information out of a long email thread. But would we love the on device stuff to be performing as well as these much larger foundational models? Sure. But we wouldn't have the speed, and we definitely wouldn't have the security and the privacy.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And I think that's an important thing to realize. Like after we've had a couple of days of this experience with Apple talking about how important the privacy aspect of this is to them, it was clearly a big part of their presentation. And I think privacy is a selling point that hardly any of these other companies can do, right?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: , Facebook is not out there saying like we can protect your privacy because their entire business model is based on the idea of knowing as much about you as they possibly can. I just sent you a Kevin interesting graph from this paper, which talks about the apple foundational model human evaluation.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: These are tests gone out to real people and there's two different things here. One is the apple on device versus and one is the apple server versus. So these are the. Local [00:06:00] version and then the version that's going to their private cloud and you see on the left the version that they're talking about Here on the on device is comparing it to Gemma to to be Mistral 7b Phi 3 mini and Gemma

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Gemma is Google's set of models. Fi, of course, is Microsoft's and then Mixtrel is by a French company. , curiously and not surprisingly, no OpenAI comparisons there on the Apple on device human preferences bar.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: What's interesting to me is if you look at the server version now this is the version before they go out to open AI because as we talked about the idea that if you want to call the GPT 4.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: 0. It can call outside and it has a terrible, what it seems like a terrible UX right now to do that, 

You can just ask Siri. Siri determines that chat GPT might have good ideas for this. Ask your permission to share your question and presents the answer directly.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: where it is a pop up that is going to ask you every time if you want to ask chat GPT something. But the thing that was interesting on this is their server numbers on this. So this is their larger model, their private cloud number.[00:07:00] 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: If you look at the GPT for turbo comparison. It really doesn't do great, right? Like only 25 for 28. 5 percent win and 41. 7 percent loss, meaning that if it wins, it was a good reaction or it was the human decided it was the right way. And if it was a loss means the human decided it was delivering the wrong thing.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So Kevin, I'm curious to know what you think about the use cases of AI on device and what they're going to be able to answer in their cloud versus the idea of stuff that's going to go out.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Because if their GPT four turbo scores, even on their server, this private cloud server are pretty low, I assume people are going to be out and pushing out to the two chat GPTs cloud quite a bit.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: One of the demos that they showed going to chat GPT for was just starting to write an email, like a creative task. So you want the most capable creative model. Sure. You can't do that on Apple's server model or for whatever reason for this demo, they felt they had to go out to chat GPT, which by [00:08:00] the way, you mentioned

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: like to sound like you're maybe 50 percent as good as you could be, Kevin? Wasn't that, wouldn't, isn't that sound like a great way to write an email?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I don't want to be the best, alright? That's, you get too noticed. Everybody says when you're at the top of the mountain, everybody wants to bring you down. I want to be like halfway up the

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: man,

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I want a good view, but I don't want to be at base camp. That's it. That's

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: in 2025, mediocre man starring Gavin Purcell as the worst person in the office, but he's still here as long as he possibly

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: ha He's not the worst, but he's not particularly great as well.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: The other thing I want to point out is the human evaluation of output harmfulness. So Clearly, the other thing, Kevin, that Apple has learned, as we all have learned, is that AI can go a little funky sometimes.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Sorry, Google, you understood this very clearly. Glue on pizza, , woke presidents, all that stuff. So, Apple is very specifically calling out this metric because to them, I really think, This is the most important thing. [00:09:00] Do no harm, but also do nothing that can hurt stock prices. The other side of this, right?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And this is just a weird thing. Human evaluation of output harmfulness. So I'm not exactly sure what's doing that, but their numbers are very low. And this is, again, I think the thing that Apple probably cares the most about.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I want to know, what were those 6 percent of outputs, Gavin? Like, what was, was someone asking Siri to set a timer and it was like, you know, cool, I'll count down reminding you that you're going to die someday? Or, you know, was it?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: like you asking people to eat shoes is what I feel like, right? Isn't that what you said you did? You asked it to eat a boot?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Well, I was testing out Microsoft's PHY models and I wanted to see if it would just tell me a good recipe for boiling a boot. It was very simple and it told me you should never do that. That's not good. It's not helpful. But yeah, these models are really guardrailed 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: an interesting thing though, from this paper, Gavin, is that everybody was saying, and you and I were saying, what's the data set, right? What was this trained Apple is a company that most recently put a bunch of musical [00:10:00] instruments and creative tools in a hydraulic press and flattened them and similarly got flattened by social media on account of it.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It was one of my favorite memes post conference with folks on, on X saying, where's the data?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: What was it trained on? And then they had Craig doing his parkour move to

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Shout out to Venture Twins. Venture Twins who we're a big fan of. She's doing great stuff on, on X.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: , they say in this paper, we train our foundational models on licensed data, including data selected to enhance specific features. That must have been written with an on device model. As well as publicly available data collected by our web crawler, Applebot.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Web publishers have the option to opt out of their use of web content for Apple Intelligence training with data usage controls. And then it says we never use our users private, personal data or user interactions when training our foundational models. So they give you a little bit of info there. We also filter profanity and other low quality content to prevent its inclusion into the [00:11:00] training corpus.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: you know, do you know what is not in their corpus then, Kevin? This. We are not in their corpus. We are, we have been filtered out. I'm sorry, everybody. You

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: you think we didn't make the cut? Yeah, we're server only baby. You got to go to the cloud to get this juice.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: come to the, to the scary parts of town to find us.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: That's all. I mean, look, it's, it's all fun, 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I think the thing that people have to remember about this is that This is not going to move the needle of the edge forward. And we've talked about this many times. Lots of people like us love to play with that edge and see where that edge is going to go.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I think Apple's business is the mainstreaming of things. It

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: This is raising the floor, right? This is the rising tide, and all of those iPhone and MacBook boats are gonna rise with it, and suddenly everybody is going to have access to an intelligence on demand. And some people, , might want to say that we sound Apple fanboy ish. When we speak like this, because there are companies like Microsoft, that's already integrated features into windows or Google, which has it [00:12:00] in their phones or forced into their search engine results, which again, as people putting glue on pizza, but I think the differentiator here is, is a few fold one, you know, Apple talks about building this semantic profile on their end users and how great that's going to be.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And so many people were screaming, Oh, you. You went in on Microsoft for their recall feature. We did not. We thought recall was cool, but we also questioned, could we trust Microsoft? Would they make the feature safe? And lo and behold, it turns out they didn't really. In fact, they're not even encrypting all of these screenshots that they're taking for every user you can get access to them.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: If you're a nefarious actor and pull out, you know, credit card information, personal photos, all sorts of stuff. So it's not security first. And with Google. Again, we talk about how exciting is they're rolling out these features, but who knows what you actually have access to, which model you're really using, how capable it is, if a feature is going to be pulled away the next day, if they're training on your data, it's all those [00:13:00] things, at least here, and again, we have to get our hands on it, we have to use it, but at least here, the promise is that it's security first, it's running on device, , and they're letting you know when they're shipping things off to a third party, which I still have issues with, by the way, cause I think that workflow is going to be really wonky.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Well, you know, who else has issues with that? Kevin is Elon Musk, who is very unhappy about the deal that they have made. Apple has made with open AI. Obviously open AI is pretty significantly integrated into this new Apple intelligence, at least at the level of , it's going to ask if you want to go to chat GBT, which is a big deal.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I think the only other integration into the iPhone like this might've been Google search, right? So this is like a big deal. But Elon. Has such such a bug up his butt about this idea, right? 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: He says, apple is using the words, protect your privacy while handing your data over to a third party. AI that they don't understand and can't themselves create is not protecting privacy at all. , and then the funny thing is, you even [00:14:00] mentioned that his own system, the, uh, uh,

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: notes on X kind of checked him and said, actually, they'll let you know when they're going off to chat GPT, but you know, and we got kind of checked on that in our comments, Gavin, but I had the same issue as Elon, that it's not about, at least, I'm not defending Elon here, I don't

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Oh, oh, yes

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: or in his heart, I'm not.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: this go out there. Kevin Perera is defending Elon

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'm a staunch Elon supporter, I think there's good people on both sides of the social media fence. , I do also bristle a little bit at the big security first security focus presentation. We're going to have third party verifiability that everything we do in our cloud is super secure. And by the way, for all these other things, we're going to ship it off to open AI, but don't worry, it'll be secure too.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: We actually don't know that yet. We don't know what the plan is to make sure that that handoff is secure. As secure as Apple wants it to be. And, when they're shipping that request off to open AI, even with your permission to do something as simple as start an email, [00:15:00] I bet there's going to be a lot of requests that need to go that way.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So the core of the argument, I I kind of agree with, which is like, Hey, wait a minute. If you're security first, what are you doing to ensure that that handoff is safe?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Right. And, and that makes sense by the way. Like, again, this is a lot of promises that are being made here, right? There's a lot of promises that are being made. And we know that open AI has been a little loosey goosey in some ways in this place before, 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: elon says if Apple forces this into the next iOS update, you can't shut it off. He's banning iPhones from all of his companies. So sorry, SpaceX and Tesla employees, maybe the same Tesla employees who were allegedly caught sharing personal data collected from people's vehicles and making memes and jokes about them in the office, but sorry, you're gonna have to put your iPhone in a Faraday cage until uncle Elon invents the space phone.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I hope you like the Google Play Store because it blows. 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Gavin, because we had similar security concerns and we knew this was going to be a big deal with the Apple open AI relationship, we decided to bring [00:16:00] somebody in from the open AI side to talk about their approach to security.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Because, maybe we can, , put people at ease. Maybe we can ask some probing questions and get to some info because I would like to be able to use this feature, Gavin, in

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Me too. I mean, this is great. Again, our bookers are incredible. They find these amazing guests for this show. I can't believe it. Let's meet them.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Yo, what's up, everyone? I'm Reef Miller, the super trustworthy chief security officer at OpenAI. You might be wondering how I got here, but trust me, I've got this on lock. Security can be a drag, but seriously, just chill out. Everything's under control. We've got some top notch initiatives in place to keep things secure, so there's no need to stress.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Just sit back, relax, and let Reef handle it. You can trust me, bro. Oh, that's cool. Well, thanks, Reef. That's super chill. Gavin, I don't have any follow ups for Reef. It sounds like security at OpenAI is going to be really solid, and we should just friggin chill, bro,

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: First of all, Reef sounds a lot like another guy that was on our show recently, but I'm not going to get into that. [00:17:00] maybe it's his brother, maybe he's a twin for all we know.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: for humans, reuse a bit? Never. Never.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: let us ask Reef, okay, that, listen, I feel very confident, Reef is very confident in

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Yeah, he says, trust me, I've got this on lock. What's more secure than a lock?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Why don't, good question. Good. There's not much more secure than a

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Can't think of anything.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: straightforward way to look at this problem. , let's ask him, how does he deal with nefarious actors? How is he going to deal with somebody who wants to break into their system and might want to exploit people's privacy? 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Oh, dealing with nefarious actors. That's easy, man. First off we deploy our Zen fortification protocol. It's no, you do. Boy, it's all about. Keeping things super chill, but impenetrable. We keep an eye out for any sketchy behavior with our mellow monitor matrix. And if someone tries to break in, we hit them with the chill shield countermeasure.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's basically a combo of top secret tech and good [00:18:00] vibes. They don't stand a chance, bro. Trust me, I've got this all figured out. Just relax and let Reef handle it. This makes sense to me. This is like, I like, these are like, reminds me of the McDojo videos where someone just uses their energy to judo flip somebody across the ring.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Reef's got it! The zen fortification protocol!

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: We have this problem with our guests a lot, but I really need to understand what his qualifications to do this job are, because this is like an important job.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: opening. I just hired a chief, , product officer. They just hired a chief financial officer. Like he's gotta be smart or else they're going to bring in some big hitter to take this gig. So , why is he qualified to do this?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: All right, all right, Gavin, I get it, man. You want the deets. So, uh, uh, I've got some serious chops, trust me. Uh, I completed a level three, uh, aggregate tech substantiation and obfuscation from Subway. Yeah, that's Subway. I also helped delineate secure infrastructure substrate outreach and paradigms for [00:19:00] Ford, Ben Ford, the son of Indiana Jones.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Plus, I got a certificate in advanced cyber fortification dynamics, uh, from the Chill Institute. Oh, okay, now that That tracks, all of that tracks. Gavin, why are you being so mean to our guests? They're a massive hire at OpenAI. This is an exclusive interview. This is our one shot to breakthrough on YouTube.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Harrison Ford's son is Ben Ford. Ben, Ben Ford. So not only is Harrison Ford's son, but it's Indiana Jones

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Indiana Jones is

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I want to ask one more question then we'll go and my big question involves Subway involves Subway is the sandwich shop What I want to know from him is and I really this is again I feel like every time he's happened I get mad What in the hell does Subway the sandwich shop have to do with AI safety and learning about security?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I don't think you're being chill at all to our guests, but I'm going to ask him, Gavin. I'm going to ask him right

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'm, I'm fired up, Kev. 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: whoa, [00:20:00] Gavin, chill out, man. It's all about thinking outside the box, bro. Subway's got this intense system for protecting their secret sandwich recipes.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And I learned a lot about obfuscation and aggregate tech substantiation there. It's all about. Applying unconventional skills to high stakes situations. Trust me, bro. I've got this covered. Just take a deep breath and let Reef handle the heavy lifting.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's interesting in some ways an interesting choice because they do make the sandwiches in plain view.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'm

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: But they're secret recipes.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'm firing him. I want you to tell him he's fired.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: You want me to fire Reef?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: do this very often on the

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Oh, no.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: live. Yes, he's getting fired. Folks, if you don't know, this is all done in real time. This is our AI co host segment of the show. Kevin is now typing in my question to our AI, and Reef is gonna tell us what he thinks about me firing him. That's just a little behind the scenes for

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: We are using, ironically, OpenAI's chat GPT to bring this character to life, along with Eleven Labs, for the text to speech, but [00:21:00] I've fired Reef on your behalf, Gavin, so let's hear his passionate response. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Whoa, whoa, Gavin, chill for a sec. Look, I get it. Security is serious business, but trust is key, bro. Uh, if you can't see that, maybe you need to mellow out a bit yourself. I brought a fresh perspective, some outside the box thinking, but hey, if you need someone more conventional, that's cool.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Oh,

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: bro, the next time you need some zen vibes in your security setup, you know where to find Reef Miller. Stay chill everyone. Oh,

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I feel bad now.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Yeah, I mean, come on, dude!

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: he when you fire somebody and they don't get mad back and they're just like I accept the firing and just be chill Now I feel better. Maybe, you know, maybe Reef's not such a bad guy. 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Yeah, he's fired.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: all right, well, we're moving on from our security expert. Who's also moving on from the security expert job. He can go back to

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Everybody's moving on.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: it is time, Kevin, for a new segment we like to call prompt to [00:22:00] Hollywood. 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Prompt to Hollywood is something you and I began discussing pretty much episode one. And our big pointing to the bleachers was that in five years or less Prompt to Hollywood would be a thing, which is where you could sit down, jam with a machine, just using plain text, and generate a Hollywood quality something.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Maybe it's a short film, maybe it's only a 30 second clip, but you'd be able to do it. I still feel like that prediction is holding up and day by day, it's looking more and more likely. I know that last 10 percent is going to be like the biggest hurdle to leap, but we have got some hot new video generation software 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: First and foremost, there is a new Chinese video model that is very good. And it's called Kling. It is from a Chinese company called Kaishu Technology. And what we kind of think of it as a Sora light.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's not as good as sore, but when you see the examples of what it can do, and these are being [00:23:00] generated by real people. And we know for a fact, this has gone out into the public. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I saw a guy on Twitter who goes by the name OP7418, which is quite an unusual, strange Twitter handle, but he, I think is in China. He's kind of covering the AI space in China. And this post had come out from the company that kind of showed it off, but nobody was sure if it was real or not, right? Because you'd never know with Chinese tech, and this is nothing against Chinese tech, but it's a definitely a different model of like secrecy and stuff over there.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: This guy said, Hey, I got access to this. I'm going to start generating things. And I was able to even ask him something specifically to generate. Famously, the first thing I saw him make was this very cool kind of like hand over the wheat field that you would saw in

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: like a gladiator scene movie.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And by the way, it looked a lot like gladiator, like so much.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: One of the most interesting ones, Kevin, was from the company and it showed a guy eating a bowl of noodles. Did you see this one?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Yeah, look, we've said it many, many times, insertion is the benchmark. Like when it comes to AI content, anytime someone is [00:24:00] getting into something or putting something into themselves, in this case, noodles,

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: but it's true. It always hallucinates. It always freaks out. Collision and insertion. How about

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Okay. That's better. That's better. Insertion being the thing

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Does collision soften the insertion?

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: a little bit. I feel like in some form or another.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Okay. So you like it violent. Okay.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I don't, I don't. I want to keep that clear. I do not. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Anyway, so one of the things about that noodle thing that a lot of people pointed out was we talk about the Will Smith test all the time because there's the very famous Will Smith video of him eating spaghetti 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: and it's just an example of we've now gotten to the place where noodles can be generated and eaten and it

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: There are montages of families eating various foods. Some through chopsticks, some with forks, slurping up noodles, big handfuls of hamburgers and dumplings, and it's so bizarre that we are two men at our stage of life having this discussion, but it is like, Do you see the [00:25:00] burger tech? Do you see the big juicy bite?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's almost like you can see it in the cheeks.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So I want to shout out a couple of other things here. , one, there's a guy named Dustin Hollywood, which we'll link to on our show notes who got hands on with this. And again, the one thing that's very different about this and something like Sora is people were able to sign up online. You didn't need it.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: A Chinese. Phone number. So some people found their way around stuff. A lot of people were saying, use a burner phone, do all this stuff and from what I can tell, it was pretty quick. Cause a lot of these people were turning out stuff. In fact, Dustin Hollywood generated an 11 minute clip reel of clips from it.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So he was just like churning through it all, which we have no idea how much money it costs to make these probably a lot. But one of the things I saw, Kevin, I don't know if you saw his first person shooter video game

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are really cool looking,

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: for people who are listening only, this is literally looks like it's a first person shooter game, like say something like Call of Duty or, or one of the,

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: but it looks like a cut scene though. The level of fidelity, the lighting, , the particle effects, this looks like a RTX demo from NVIDIA [00:26:00] from, , years ago, where you go, what games are going to look like this, but it, it has that look and feel even in a short clip.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So a couple of quick tech things on this. It produces videos up to two minutes long and 10 ADP at 30 frames per second. , so that's pretty high. That's about what source supposedly able to do. , there's a very interesting post from, uh, the guy I mentioned earlier, the OP poster who compared literally went through every Sora kind of famous Sora video and regenerated it within cling.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And you can tell when you directly compare them. That it's not as good. And I think one thing we're going to talk a little bit about is like what the lead that OpenAI has in this space. And Kling seems to be the closest by far because these feel like other things. 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I'll say this though.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: also interesting.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's out. And that's a huge differentiator. Anytime someone goes, Oh, it's not as good as well. Is it as good? We've interviewed people that are using Sora. We know that they've got a hit to miss ratio, that it can take a long time to render some stuff. It's not fully productized with whatever their [00:27:00] interface is going to be.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: This is at least out. So right now it is the best. Text to video generative model that people can get their hands on. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: One thing I do want to shout out real quick is the shy kids who we've had on the show before, who were for, who have made the airhead video with Sora. They worked directly with Sora. They actually tweeted out a version of a video that they saw came out of, of this company and it was called a day with the balloon man.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And it basically is a shot for shot remake of their movie made in Kling. And honestly, Kevin's not bad. Like there's, it doesn't look as good, but it's not, it's not bad at

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: But it reminds me of those, like, knockoff VCDs or, , DVDs that you'd get, like, at a, at a Chinese market, which I did when I was there it's like, oh, transmorphers! Uh, this, this is probably just about as good as Transformers.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: The fact that it's coming from China and that it is open and out To people it's not open probably there's a lot of probably restrictions on it But I think this goes to our point that we've said in the show before is that other countries are not gonna slow down Sora is being opening eyes [00:28:00] being very careful with Sora They're they're taking their time before they release it And that's great for us.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And probably for a lot of people that would be mad if things came out of it, that weren't allowed. But China is out here just pulling, releasing things right now. I will say, Kev, I, I didn't see any IP in any of the videos. So maybe they are. Oh, did you see

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: ah, the link will be in our show notes, but I love when AI fails. That's still to me. Great. And I think that's an aesthetic that we're going to long for in like 10 years, the wonky Will Smith eating spaghetti will become like an aesthetic. Dustin Hollywood has a post with four AI failure samples.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: One of them is a boxer. knocking themselves out, like a EA Fight Night model collapsing in on itself. But if you look at that, pretty clearly the UFC octagon. So I wonder if they, , knocked on Dana White's door to get access to that IP, but I think it's that. And then there's a video of two caped crusaders That very much look like [00:29:00] Batman, fighting in an alleyway 

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: I love the fail clips, but what stood out to me there was, oh, these look, these look like they might be someone else's IP. And is China worried about that? Are they clamping down on that right now? Or are they saying run with the dirtiest data set as possible, get as good as you can and deal with it later?

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Which Also, to be fair, many American companies have done as well.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Speaking of that, there's a great book that I read. It's a little old now, but I think it still holds up called AI superpowers, China, Silicon Valley, and new world order by a guy named Kaifu Lee.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And one of the points that he puts in that book. Is that China might move faster in some technology because they don't follow rules and that IP doesn't mean as much to each other, like people in China, I guess, according to this book, we'll just kind of take ideas and move them around. And like, it's really about who can get to market fastest with a specific thing.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Super interesting book, but that's a really good point overall that maybe they're not, I just was surprised I hadn't seen more IP show up, but there it is. It clearly there's some of it there.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And as we talk about [00:30:00] the of the internet, that Airhead knockoff video, even though I knew this, and I'm sure you knew this as well, seeing that is just like the aha moment of my Instagram or my TikTok feed Gavin, as I swipe is like how to deal with rhomboid pain issue and how to make

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: cottage cheese, egg white bread. When you swipe, every influencer's like, I had to try the new cottage cheese bread hack. Shroomp. Did you know that if you mix It's It's fine, by the way. For what it is, healthy something, it's fine. But it's every influencer, as you swipe, all doing the same thing, and When these tools come online to the masses, it's going to be that with every meme everywhere.

kevin_2_06-12-2024_113339: Someone's gonna come up with a silly visual gag about something, and everyone's gonna have their own AI generated version of it, with their own AI voice on it, and it'll just be a firehose of that stuff. And that's when I'm gonna throw my iPhone 18 into the ocean.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And you're going to walk the mountains and, uh, Kung Fu style. Uh, okay. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: We should move on where there's one other tool that just, came out right as [00:31:00] recording this that's called it's from a company called Luma labs dot AI, and they're releasing what's called the dream machine. 

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: And the dream machine is their new text to video and image to video model.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: . I will say Kev though, up until now, these kind of smaller models or I shouldn't say, I don't know how big their model is, but smaller companies, it always has felt like it's like, okay, I have a picture and I'm almost going to make the Harry Potter moving version of this picture.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: This, according to the links that they've sent out, and I'm on their website right now, looking at some of the videos, this There is a lot more motion than there has been in those sorts of things. And I want to play around with it. I tried to play around with it this morning, but it is still rendering, uh, two separate prompts that I put in, uh, from four hours, no, three hours ago at this point.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: So it is. It's clearly being hit hard, they did give, , access to a lot of really interesting filmmakers. there's a guy named Dave Clark. Who's at D Saul, D I E S O L on X Twitter, who actually had a, uh, a video come out that he had spent some [00:32:00] time on, which was very cool.

gavin_2_06-12-2024_113339: It's still a little bit that same sort of thing where you're like, okay, I get it. You have it's AI video and you're trying to do the best you can with like a five to seven second clip.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I'm not exactly sure if we can see a company like this once Sora is out or Kling is out to a larger audience if it will work, but I really am rooting for these smaller companies because I think you need competition in this space and a lot of AI filmmakers are really enjoying what they're able to do there right now.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Will they get off the ground and be able to Sora to new heights?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: where we are now in this stage of the show?

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: It's just the kind of thing, Gavin, that might make you take a step back and go, Hey, I

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: did there. 

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: [00:33:00] When we are in person. We are gonna be able to say

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: don't believe you exist. I don't believe you exist. I don't believe that you actually exist anymore.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I exist because I feel real human

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Yeah, it's true, you were in pain all the time. Or maybe this is purgatory and you're having to learn something. That

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Oh no! Oh no! I like that you're my purgatory, Gavin.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: yeah, exactly. You're gonna spend time with me this would be the weirdest purgatory of all time. 

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: for the new listeners to the old podcast and we have dozens. Hey, I see what you did there is the part where Gavin and I take a step back at the things that made us stop scrolling and , wish we could get our hands on it.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And we have two of those things today, and I want to start with inflatable RC Terrain Robots. BAM BAM

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I was, so you sent this link to me and I have to say, I did not look at it yet. Cause you said, wait, and I'm going to look at it now. It's cause tell me what's going on here.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Okay, so if you are in a virtual environment, Gavin, if you're playing an AR game or a VR game, and there happens to be an obstacle in [00:34:00] front of you, or you're hitting a ball, or you're swiping at an enemy with a

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Oh, wow.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: swiping through air. You know, if your back is up against a wall, you want to feel that wall or else you have that broken sense of immersion.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And so what this incredible team of creatives did was attach basically packing material sort of balloons that they would use to secure an Amazon package. Two little remote controlled robots, and it can dynamically inflate or deflate this column of air so that you feel the feedback of the item.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And as you're moving around a 3D space, the robots will move with you, Gavin. So if you need to Hit an enemy that's in front of you one second, the robot rolls into space, it inflates the bag, you hit it, it can go away, but then it can move to the side of you because there's something else there.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I mean, it's amazing. The video is amazing, but do you, you must understand the first thing that pops into my head when you say inflatable robot and moving in real space

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Hugging your waifu. I want to be able to hug [00:35:00] waifu one. I turn, there's waifu two. I get two robots, suddenly I have waifu one and two. There we go, and I'm nestled between them.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Actually, I think this is a really cool idea. Basically, when I'm watching, watching this video to describe it for people as you're seeing a couple people in VR headsets walking around in a space and around them are these little roly bots that have literal balloons that inflate up or down. And the one that would really got me was at one point, , one of the people leans down and kind of pets a dog and the three little robots have, The deflated low enough to where the dog is supposed to be.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: So it's level. Obviously this is beginning stages and not every, but if you feel a balloon, not everything's going to feel like a balloon, but

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: This might also be the final stage. I just want to be clear. This is beginning stage and this might be as far as this goes, but kudos

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: far as it goes, but it's still very cool. I love these old robot videos that come from these university robotics departments, because you can tell it's like a lot of just very smart people trying to figure out ways to play around with robots, 

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: speaking of really weird and interesting things, Kevin, Google DeepMind, the Demis Hassabis joint, , has dropped another, [00:36:00] a banger of a paper. And this time they showed off the fact that they were able to create an artificial rat within a simulated space.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And you say like, that's whatever. I killed a bunch of rats in Baldur's Gate three and I

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Yeah, that's a level one quest. I needed 20 pelts and then I got level two and I never looked back.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: What they've done in this instance is they've basically actually simulated the brain of the rat so that it's operating as a normal rat would in artificial space. So this is a simulated rat and Kev, the thing that this made me think about, it may sound super technical, but this is like the entry point to simulated AIs in virtual universes and not just simulated AIs that we've programmed as a personality and like giving them like ways to walk around.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: All actual brain simulation, right? So if this is where brain research and AI kind of crossover, because it will be interesting to see if they've able, if they've been able to do it for a rat with a rat brain, what does the scale look like? How can they scale up from here?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And then how does that affect AI? .

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: [00:37:00] Right, modeling the neurons of the brain, as opposed, like, letting the behaviors naturally arise because you've modeled. The core brain is, is wild, and the findings in that no one's talking about it, at least at the level that they should be. Earth shattering, Gavin. They learned, big rat, like big cheese.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: yes, big

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: What a takeaway! You got big rat? Want big cheese. Tiny rat? Fine with tiny cheese. But they want, but rat like cheese.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: rat sometimes wants

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Tiny rat also like big cheese. 

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Tiny rat has, has cornered the market on big cheese and big cheese brat doesn't have the ability to deal with it anymore. So tiny rat. has recruited six other tiny rats to take over and take

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And they also all learn musical instruments and they've been performing at pizza restaurants. It's really weird. When the simulation, if you let it run long enough, they all end up playing fusion

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: is how Chuck E. Cheese happened, isn't it? This is how Chuck E. Cheese happened. 

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: All right, everybody, we want to jump into some stuff we did with AI this week, and I got time with a couple new tools. First and foremost, stable diffusion, which we've talked a lot about on the show.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: [00:38:00] They lost their CEO of their company. People have been wondering when three was going to come out.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Well, just today, stable diffusion three dropped and you can play around with it. , so this is stable diffusion three medium, which is not their largest model.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: We've been waiting for that for a while, but it's still a good model. It's fast. , there's a great, there's a great link, which we'll put into the show notes from a company called replicate. Which hosts the model . And one of the big things that supposedly stable diffusion three is supposed to be good at is text, right? So I just did the quickest of tests of this because it had just come out. And one of the prompts when you go to that replicate link is photo of a vibrant graffiti artist on a wall, a graffiti, artistic graffiti on a wall saying SD three medium, right?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: In the version they have. It looks kind of cool. It says SD3 and then it says medium a little bit at the bottom of it. It looked interesting. So Kev, I went and tried to have it say AI for humans, right? You can see this on our Twitter handle, but it only got one of them right in terms of not screwing up the words.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And the other

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: AI [00:39:00] for uwumans.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: or AI for hummus is one of them. It looks like almost in a weird way, which maybe that's what

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: okay with that,

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: a show about hummus. I know exactly, but it's okay. Right. And I feel like the thing is when I, when I played with this and I'd been expecting to play with this for a while.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Because Stable Diffusion really was the kind of the leader of, of even more so maybe than Midjourney. I still think it's so weird to me that text is something that we haven't figured out. And maybe it's a little bit like the problem of hallucinations, right? Where it's gonna need one more kind of leap in the model to get there.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: And I think I'm still waiting for, GPT 4. 0 to roll out all their other things because we've been talking about forever. We've got the basic text model for GPT 4. 0, but we're still missing the voice model, which as soon as that comes out, we'll tell everybody about it here. But on top of that, there were all these other cool image models that they had set up.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: So anyway, this was fine. I didn't think it was that exciting. It was fine.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: there was an earth shattering advancement in the world of [00:40:00] AI generated imagery, and it was courtesy of our good friends. And I , proudly exclaimed that you won our little corner of the internet yesterday with your thread showing off a new Glyph workflow, which we will explain what that is, but a new Glyph workflow that turns anything into MS Paint.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: This uses a stable diffusion backend, and this is one of the things that makes stable diffusion interesting, that you can actually go into it and do things with it. Glyph is our friends. They run a company which basically allows, , you as an end human user, somebody who doesn't have a lot of tech experience to do kind of deep open source techie stuff by putting together almost like little pieces of it in they're

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: It's the incredible machine of AI. You can build a Rube Goldberg workflow that will take something and generate something else.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: That's right. And Fabian, one of the co founders of glyph actually created this pipe for, , MS paint, , anything, right? So basically what this does is it takes images that you can upload and it will MS paint them for you. There was an aesthetic of like the, I [00:41:00] guess the nineties and early two thousands, which was really the MS paint era, we'll call it, but it's kind of crappy looking.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: It's colored in a weird way. So what I did just for the hell of it, cause I was like, why not try this? I saw Fabian had taken pulp fiction stills and done it. It was very cool. But I wanted to go through and take, the most famous photos on the internet. And so I took like Michaela Maroney's kind of weird half smile.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I took the monkey that took a picture of itself for a smile. Sad Keanu. My favorite one though is the, , the Oscar selfie pick, what's cool about this to me, and I think probably ke for you too, is it's the fun part of ai, right?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: It's like it doesn't have to turn it out a photorealistic thing. It can make it interesting and fun and kind of lo-fi and kind of stupid. You have the the very famous picture with jennifer laurence meryl streep , bradley cooper it jennifer laurence it decided it was going to Give her a beard which was interesting and then also meryl streep also has a beard So there's a lot of extra beards here And then I [00:42:00] really love the fact that it added a random thumb to meryl streep's hand that was attached to uh You It was attached to, Ellen's , arm.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Just like earlier with those Kling broken video examples, this speaks to that. Sometimes the brokenness is the joy, it is the fun, because , it is still a machine trying to approximate all of our human traits. It's trained on us and it sometimes just doesn't know. So yeah, you're going to grab an extra finger or an AI for humans along the way.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: It happens,

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: exactly. Well, anybody, you can do this at home. So we'll include a link in our show notes, you literally just grab a picture, drop it in, and it will MSP in itself. This is something that like your mom can do or anybody can try to do.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: So go try this. It's a fun way to play with AI. Kevin, we have our five star review we are going to read now, which is very exciting.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: which if I may, Gavin, I think this is the most fun way to play with AI. If you haven't dipped a toe into the waters, you got to, and you should absolutely start not with chat GPT, not with Bing, not with Google, but by leaving us a five star review on Apple [00:43:00] podcasts or even on Spotify, we can't read them there, but we appreciate it.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: But someone left us. An Apple podcast review, Gavin, on June 4th, Bonfire Axiom said, You got me on the altered carbon reference.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: But you really got me with the discussion over AI and game worlds. The fact that the Netflix showrunners altered everything about envoys is a travesty.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I agree.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Team 9000 with doctorates in psychology.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Not Jungle Freedom Fighters, no offense. If they had simply followed the books, Season 2 would have been Broken Angels. Still one of my favorite sci fi novels.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: All right, Kev. I think I get this and I think you're right. he goes on to talk a little bit about game worlds and interesting things. And he says, 10, 10 would recommend 11, 10 with rice. Amazing review. First of all, you're absolutely right about ultracarbon, but thank you so much.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Bonfire Axiom. We really appreciate you listening. And you too could have your own five star review read right here. Go leave it right now on Apple Podcast. Doing actual written reviews does help the show a lot. And also, you know what the hell at [00:44:00] Apple tell them they need to feature us. That's right Kevin.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: I said it. Go tell the at at apple. At Apple across all your

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Do you think the on device, , Apple Intelligence foundational model will know who we are? Do we think it's gonna scrape Apple Podcasts and pull that info there?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: think it will. Honestly, I think that much it

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: you think it's gonna have something nice to say about us?

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: No, it's probably going to say there's two guys, one guy wears a hat and the other guy has a lot of back pain. That's probably what it's going to say.

kevin_3_06-12-2024_122559: Wow, that's a great summary. Well done, Apple. Kudos.

gavin_3_06-12-2024_122559: All right, everybody, we'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. Bye bye, everyone.